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Usually, during taking Sannyasa, a Sannyasi discards his sacred thread by throwing it into the fire pit. Similarly, he discards his crown tuft (the Shikha).

1.Does that mean he has lost his caste (by birth)? Or does he still retain it?
2. Does the caste-system dissolve upon taking Sannyasa? Or in other words, are there any differences between a Brahmin Sannyasi and a Kshatriya Sannyasi (as far as their castes are concerned)?

Rickross
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  • sannyas means the renouncing of caste. no caste is recognized among sadhus. – Swami Vishwananda Dec 11 '17 at 09:22
  • So, if you can write an answer @SwamiVishwananda – Rickross Dec 11 '17 at 09:30
  • @SwamiVishwananda When the basis of sanyasa itself is caste then what to say about it ? Shudras are not.given sanyasa so.where is point in dissolving it ? – Rakesh Joshi Dec 12 '17 at 00:55
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    @RakeshJoshi there are shudras that have been given sannyas... – Swami Vishwananda Dec 12 '17 at 05:25
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    @SwamiVishwananda dashanami sampradaya don't allow it. Maybe offshoots allow.it – Rakesh Joshi Dec 12 '17 at 09:26
  • @RakeshJoshi different maths have different rules. the rule of one is not the rule of all others. – Swami Vishwananda Dec 14 '17 at 10:42
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    But when you are affiliated to that. Mutt you cant have own rules as.per your wish... – Rakesh Joshi Dec 14 '17 at 17:28
  • @RakeshJoshi according to few Sannyasa Upanishads i have read one need to have the sacred thread to sacrifice during Sannyas rituals. So, apparently Sudras can not. But Mahanirvana Tantram allows it for Sudras. Here they just need to sacrifice their crown knot. But it is not exactly Sannyas too but Avadhoota Grahana. – Rickross Dec 15 '17 at 04:54
  • @Rickross tantra in general dont support sanyasa. Some texts may have interpolation. See the answer where self is said to be the sacred thread etc. – Rakesh Joshi Dec 15 '17 at 09:26
  • @RakeshJoshi Mahanirvana Tantra does not allow Sannyasa at least not in Kali Yuga (Anyways u may know that Mahanirvana is completely focused on Kali). It says in Kali only Avadhoota-hood possible not Sannyasa-hood. – Rickross Dec 15 '17 at 14:54
  • In previous yugas we don't have many sanyasins – Rakesh Joshi Dec 15 '17 at 16:35
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    I think Sri Vaishnava Sanyasis don't discard their thread. –  Nov 26 '18 at 14:46

1 Answers1

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Self answering.....

First of all, the caste (of the would be Sannyasi) does matter. A person who's not performing the duties of his caste (Varna) is declared unfit to renounce.. As also persons who do not have the Vedic fire..So, by this, the lowest caste persons are clearly ruled out..

  1. One should never allow renunciation to those who have just settled as house-holders, those who have committed great sins, those who have lost caste due to non-performance of the principal purificatory rites (vratyas) and the accursed.--- From the Narada Parivrajaka Upanishad

But during the Sannyasa rituals the aspirant sacrifices the symbols of his caste- the top-knot or the Shikha and the sacred thread or the Yajnopavita.

Now, when a man has come to know the highest truth, the eternal Brahman, let him then take a single staff and discard the topknot together with the sacred string --From the same Upanishad.

Now, after taking Sannyasa the ascetic does not seem to have a caste, because if he had, he would have been bound by the mandatory duties that are his Varna Dharmas. But, he does not seem to have anything of that sort.

"Fools, tied to customs of class and order, get their rewards according to their deeds. Men who abandon the duties of class and the like become sated by their own bliss.

  1. "Classes and orders contain subdivisions and have a beginning and an end. They are nothing but a great torment. Free from attachment to the body and to sons and the like, let a man live in supreme and endless bliss."

Maitreya Upanishad's chapter 4 (linked to the Sama Veda)

Few more verses from the same Upanishad's 1st chapter:

I-16. How can the danger (of duality) approach me, resorting as I do to the inner bliss of the Self, who despise the female goblin of desires, who view the phenomenal world as in illusion and who am unattached to it ? I-17. Those ignorant people who stick to castes and orders of life obtain the (worthless) fruit of their respective actions. Those who discard the ways of caste, etc., and are happy with the bliss of the Self become merged in Brahman (lit. Purushas). I-18. The body consisting of various limbs and observing the (rules of) castes and orders has a beginning and an end and is only a great trouble. Free of attachment to one’s children, etc., and the body, one should live in the endless supreme happiness.

So, as per these verses, Sannyasi discard the rules of caste.. and they do so by renouncing.

Also, for the Sannyasi, the caste is like any other bondages, and which they have renounced.

  1. Bondage consists in imagining a plunge into the flux of existence with its possessive claims on fields, gardens, houses, children, wives, brothers, mothers and fathers.
  2. Bondage is the conceit of egoistic agency in regard to actions, etc.
  3. Bondage is the imagination prompted by the desire for the eight powers, anima, etc.
  4. Bondage is the imagination prompted by the yearning for adoring gods, men, etc.
  5. Bondage is the imagination (leading to) the practice of Yoga with its eight limbs, Yama, etc. 24. Bondage is the planning of action and duties bound up with castes and stations of life.

From Niralamba Upanishad (linked to Shukla Yajurveda)

But a minor conflict arises when we see the following verse from another minor Upanishad:

"A mendicant thus should neither accept nor even look at such things as gold. One may respond that there is no harm in merely looking at them. [53] On the contrary, it is truly harmful, because if a mendicant looks at gold with longing he becomes a murderer of a Brahmin; if a mendicant touches gold with longing he becomes an outcaste;

Paramhamsa Upanishad's chapter 4

Now, how can one become an outcaste, who do not have any caste at all?

But, besides that, it's safe to conclude that the Sannyasis don't retain any caste.

Rickross
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  • Wth! Vratyas cannot become Sannyasis??? –  Feb 08 '18 at 07:01
  • Does that mean also that sons, grandsons and great-grandsons, etc of Vratyas cannot take Sannyasa? –  Feb 08 '18 at 07:04
  • Yes Vratyas are apparently not allowed... I am writing an answer to this Q: https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/18993/are-shudras-allowed-to-take-up-sanyasa.. See the answer after i am done.. @SuryaKantaBoseChowdhury – Rickross Feb 08 '18 at 07:06
  • And even their sons, grandsons and great-grandsons? Basically I mean, no Kshatriya-Bandhus can take Sannyasa? –  Feb 08 '18 at 07:08
  • If we go by these scriptures then NO, coz a Vratyas son is also a Vratya.. unless Vratyasoma is done.. But many people had taken Sannyas without following these rules..like Swami Vivekanada.. @SuryaKantaBoseChowdhury – Rickross Feb 08 '18 at 07:18
  • What's Vratyasoma?? –  Feb 08 '18 at 07:21
  • @SuryaKantaBoseChowdhury It's a remedy for Vratya affliction.. it is said to remove Vratya-hood from the Vratyas if performed.. It's a Vedic Yajna.. – Rickross Feb 08 '18 at 07:22
  • If you see this question here: https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/23125/what-are-the-duties-of-a-kshatriya-bandhu it says there is no hope for Vratyas who have crossed 3 generations without initiation. –  Feb 08 '18 at 07:24
  • Yes i have used that passage in one of my answers too.. If we go by that then there's no chance..but Vratya Soma is also an option.. Whether Kanachi Paramacharya had taken all the options into account while making the statement or not is not clear to me..@SuryaKantaBoseChowdhury – Rickross Feb 08 '18 at 07:28
  • Can you direct me to some articles, websites, etc where I can learn more about this ritual? Which texts mention this ritual? –  Feb 08 '18 at 07:29
  • @Rickross can you elaborate on this - "One should never allow renunciation to those who have just settled as house-holders" who exactly fall under this category? – Just_Do_It Nov 26 '18 at 13:58
  • That means young people who just got married.. yet to hv children etc .. they hv a lot of duties to fulfill...@Just_Do_It – Rickross Nov 26 '18 at 13:59
  • @Rickross thanks...but at what point are they considered eligible? – Just_Do_It Nov 26 '18 at 14:00
  • well one has to fulfill the preliminary duties first like having children raising thm up see thm being well settled. But thr is also a provision of renouncing at any point in time (i.e as soon as the desire for renunciation emerges in mind). @Just_Do_It – Rickross Nov 26 '18 at 14:03
  • I have heard that only Brāhmaṇas can take saṁnyāsa, but based on your citations, it seems like dvijas (as a whole) and not Brāhmaṇas alone, are eligible for saṁnyāsa. Am I right? – Bingming Sep 24 '23 at 07:35