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Short Question (or say subset of below longer question - Just to make long question easier to understand) -

  • Will Vaikuntha be ever over populated by liberated souls? If not, Lord Vishnu is not benevolent as some poor souls will never get Moksha which is cosmic injustice. If yes, how will he deal with such situation?

Note - Replace Vaikuntha with any other permanent physical place where you believe you will reside permanently after getting Moksha and Lord Vishnu with any God with whom you believe you are gonna live forever.

Long Question -

There are only three non dual schools of thoughts namely Sāntabrahmavāda (Sankara Vedanta), Ishvarādvayavāda (Kashmiri Shaivism) & Shuddhadvaita. In all these systems, liberation is assimilation of empirical self into universal self (in simple terms). Therefore, there is no empirical self or monad exists after liberation, it's identity is with universal consciousness only after liberation.

Apart from these 3 systems, all systems are either semi dual or dual. According to these systems, empirical self isn't assimilated into universal consciousness rather exists even after liberation although in purer & bliss form.

My question is from later systems of thoughts -

  1. There are infinite creations.
  2. Because there are infinite creations, every individual empirical self is destined to get liberated. If it isn't, God is not benevolent. But God is benevolent therefore every individual self surely attains liberation in some point in time however very long.
  3. Once liberated individual self won't take birth once again, otherwise what use of liberation?
  4. From 2, there would be a point of time when all individuals souls would be liberated however may be so long.
    Now after point 4 is accomplished, on what basis creation would be accomplished?,
    If answers are one among -
  5. New individual self would be created. Then on what basis? Even if we accept they are created somehow then it would imply the increasing number of individual selves, which leads to infinite number of individual selves at some point of time!!!
  6. Same individual selves will again take part in creation & will take births. If it is then what is the use of liberation? Doesn't it imply liberation according to these systems are temporary only.
ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ
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    This problem even exists in Advaitic philosophies. How Kashmir Shaivism and Advaita Vedanta escape from this predicament? btw, see What will happen when all atmans get moksha? – The Destroyer May 05 '17 at 13:03
  • Yes @TheDestroyer they escape at some extent. There is no 'you' after liberation. – ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ May 05 '17 at 13:04
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    Well, if there are an infinite number of Jivas, then even if it is true that each Jiva will attain Moksha sooner or later, their attainment of Moksha could be staggered so that there is never any point in time when all Jivas have attained Moksha. In any case, pretty much everyone (except Arya Samaj people) believes that Moksha is eternal. – Keshav Srinivasan May 05 '17 at 15:28
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    By the way, not everyone believes that all Jivas will attain Moksha. The Dvaita philosopher Madhvacharya believed that there are some Jivas who will be stuck in the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth for all eternity. And he believed that some Jivas who do sufficiently bad deeds over the course of many births will eventually fall down into Andhatamas, a place of eternal punishment. – Keshav Srinivasan May 05 '17 at 15:32
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    @KeshavSrinivasana sounds horrific & implies God is malevolent. – ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ May 05 '17 at 15:34
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    Moreover @KeshavSrinivasan finite bundle of sins (finite cause) can't result into eternal punishment (Infinite effect). Finite lives can't accumulate infinite sins. Otherwise, It is injustice & cosmic cruelty that any benevolent being won't do. – ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ May 05 '17 at 15:49
  • @RohitSinghRathore Well I don't agree with Madhvacharya, but he believes that Brahman is benevolent, and that putting people in Andhatamas is consistent with that as he's giving people what they deserve. In any case, it need not be a finite bundle of sins; it could be an infinite bundle of sins accumulated over infinitely many past births. – Keshav Srinivasan May 05 '17 at 15:53
  • @KeshavSrinivasan I think it can be largely finite say 10^{123456} but it can't be infinite. :) – ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ May 05 '17 at 15:54
  • @RohitSinghRathore Well, the Vedanta school believes that each Jiva has infinitely many past births. So that would mean infinitely many sins. – Keshav Srinivasan May 05 '17 at 19:53
  • Even if we accept eternal punishment then also such jivas can't be used again in creation. Moreover, can you give an example/incidence of infinite sin? @KeshavSrinivasan – ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ May 06 '17 at 01:07
  • "Even if we accept eternal punishment then also such jivas can't be used again in creation." That's true, but Madhvacharya also believed that some Jivas will be stuck in the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. He reconciles that with Brahman being benevolent by saying that Brahman gives those souls what they deserve. "Moreover, can you give an example/incidence of infinite sin?" Like I said, the Vedanta school believes that each Jiva has had infinitely past births. So if you've committed at least one sin in each of those past births, that adds up to infinitely many sins. – Keshav Srinivasan May 06 '17 at 02:21
  • @RohitSinghRathore By the way, let me reiterate that I don't agree with Madhvacharya; as a Sri Vaishnava I believe that each Jiva will attain Moksha sooner or part. – Keshav Srinivasan May 06 '17 at 02:22
  • "Jiva will attain moksha sooner or later" Sounds hopeful finally. :) @KeshavSrinivasan – ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ May 06 '17 at 02:46
  • Related: Is Moksha a permanent state?, No. of Jivatmas & Significance of Maya – Pandya May 06 '17 at 06:11
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    Btw, In addition to Advaita & KS, I think Shuddhadvaita (of Vallabhacharya) is also non dual philosophy. – Pandya May 06 '17 at 06:19
  • Nice finding @Pandya. Interesting. – ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ May 06 '17 at 06:48
  • moksha is attain permanent state of liberation then in that case your karma for attaining moksha is also not inifinite.. then how could the soul be in infinite state of liberation to hold this argument ture we have infinite andhamas if moksha is inifinite andhamas is also infinite so madvacharya is a supreme among the devas, he gave all the correct meaning of vedas – Prasanna R Dec 28 '18 at 12:46

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