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Many contemporary groups (fundamentalist Christians and Muslims; secular liberals; Marxists) have denounced the "Manu Smriti" text as a source of discrimination against the "lesser castes" as well as against women. One researcher from the Arya Samaj has said that the "Manu Smriti" text has been altered (via addition of later shlokas) throughout the centuries in order to give economic and political power to the Brahmins and Kshatriyas. This same researcher states that the true and original verses of Lord Manu did not contain such discrimination and inequality.

What is the validity of such accusations and assertions? Please provide guidance to all the interested individuals of Hindu Dharma living abroad who don't have access to the primary textual sources of "Manu Smriti".

Nehal Patel
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  • And what parts of Hindu scripture do they not condemn?? 2) Have you read the Manu Smriti? It is an ancient text, with many parts meant for people of that time. The Old Testament of the Bible gives directions as to how a man should treat his young female slaves - what about that? 3) The laws of Manu are smriti, they are not sruti. If parts of it conflicts with sruti then reject it. All modern Vedanta rests on three legs - the Upanishads, the Gita, and the Brahma Sutras - no matter what your sect. Don't get lost in secondary texts.
  • – Swami Vishwananda Jul 04 '16 at 06:05
  • @ Swami Vishwananda , Well Said. – SwiftPushkar Jul 04 '16 at 07:41
  • Thank you for responding, Swami Vishwananda. I definitely liked the part about Sruti taking predence over Smriti. Vedanta views the Jivatma-Paramatma relationship as sacred. The Jivatma is given sanctity so this is a most egalitarian metaphysical doctrine. Can you suggest a good English-language translation of "Manu Smriti" (one which represents Lord Manu's intent for composing this Smriti)? If there are annotations in the translation, then these will help to give a context for the verses. – Nehal Patel Jul 04 '16 at 13:41
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    @SwamiVishwananda, i need advice on day-to-day matters - how to divide inheritance, how to choose a bride/groom, how to clean myself after nature's call, what direction to keep my head while sleeping etc. Do Vedas have these ? If so, can you show me where ? The philosophy 'reject smriti if conflicting with sruti' was made famous by Swami Vivekananda (I read almost full CW and Ramakrishna Kathamrita end-to-end), but he didn't sweep all age-old wisdom under 'irrelevant for today'-carpet, which has lead to disastrous consequences. If u can show which Manu Smriti verses are against Vedas, pls do. – ram Nov 05 '18 at 03:25
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    In the Dharma sastras such as Manu-smriti sages explained things which they learned from Sruti, and Itihasas, Pancaratras and sattvic Puranas such as Vishnu Purana and Bhagavatam are also written according to teachings of Sruti. – brahma jijnasa Nov 06 '18 at 15:40
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    @ram Hinduism can do without the text offering such mechanical control of life. Religious texts are meant to be pondered and critiqued to obtain wisdom. Not to be used like an OS manual. – tejasvi88 Dec 31 '19 at 14:29
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    @tejasvi88, hmm.. a fitness athlete gives you a day-to-day, hour-by-hour exercise program (90 minute workout, 30-day fat loss) etc., and you lap it up without question.. why ? because you are interested in the results, right? do you know what majority of people call such people... 'suckers' . But do those 'suckers' who actually followed it, and verified the results for themselves, think of themselves as 'suckers' ? No. They think the rest of majority people are ignorant, lazy, sour-grapes foxes. Similarly, shastras are god-send for people interested in results. For others, they are 'OS manual' – ram Jan 01 '20 at 06:15
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    @ram I would be much wary to take obscure and uncritiqued fitness advice which is dismissed by the rational majority. But that's irrelevant. I won't go as far either to call Manusmriti 'god-send'. Great piece of work by humans? Absolutely. – tejasvi88 Jan 01 '20 at 07:28
  • @tejasvi88, exactly - you will dismiss it, until you benefit from it. is there any point in the benefiters arguing with the doubters, when the benefiters themselves were doubters before, and the only thing that changed their stance is actually following said program ? – ram Jan 01 '20 at 07:31
  • @ram I see what you're getting at. I would quote 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'. If the components of an advice fail to support themselves, the efficacy of advice as whole, being unamenable to experiments, is indeed an extraordinary claim. Might I as well add placebo affect to the mix which would void the exclusiveness of benefits. The burden of proof lies on the benefiters (or claimers) because this situation is similar to the Russell's teapot. – tejasvi88 Jan 01 '20 at 08:05
  • 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' ? 'extraordinary results require extraordinary effort'. btw, even Einstein cannot even prove a simple thing like 'mango tastes sweet' to me, if I refuse to taste it. Similarly, even Vyasa cannot prove that rebirth/karma/bhagavan exists to you, if you refuse to follow the method for verification. See - https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/34343/have-hindu-philosophies-dealt-with-subjective-vs-objective-pramana-evidence – ram Jan 01 '20 at 08:38
  • @ram Glad to see such discussions still active in Hinduism even if I don't fully agree with it. The subjective method falls apart when there are handful of people claiming the opposite, the mango is salty. Assuming common connotation of words, is same mango now sweet or salty or something else? We can debate about the perfect method to know but reaching consensus purely through subjectivity is impossible (mango is poor eg here). As an aside, Invisible Pink Unicorn (yeah, it's real deal) also has a path of salvation if anyone is willing to verify. – tejasvi88 Jan 01 '20 at 11:48
  • @tejasvi88, "The subjective method falls apart when there are handful of people claiming the opposite," - there are people claiming the earth is flat.. does their subjective opinion invalidate the round-earth theory ? Or are those people either ignorant, or flawed in their experimentation ? Same way, people who claim shastras are wrong, are either ignorant, or flawed in their experimentation. – ram Jan 01 '20 at 17:47
  • @ram Yes, it does invalidate the subjective opinion that earth is round (or hypercube) until it is objectively proven otherwise. – tejasvi88 Jan 02 '20 at 04:22
  • @tejasvi88, exactly. by that logic, every single thing that I have not personally verified myself is subject to doubt. And being scientific, I will refuse to believe it until evidence proves it true. Which means, that when a doctor gives me headache medicine, it is subjective opinion until I have verified all the pharmaceutical double-blind research studies myself. Until then I won't eat the medicine and suffer the headache.. right ? – ram Jan 02 '20 at 19:25
  • @ram It's a non-sequitur about the application of objective methods on an individual level. Trust is here a useful aid for acceptable levels of public scrutiny. Pushing the envelope thus further (say, trust sanity?) will invalidate the basis of argument and result in red herring. – tejasvi88 Jan 03 '20 at 11:05
  • "Trust is here a useful aid for acceptable levels of public scrutiny" - Exactly. Who you CHOOSE to TRUST is as subjective as the taste of a mango. You choose to trust scientists and denigrate rishis. I choose to trust rishis and treat scientists neutrally. – ram Jan 03 '20 at 18:26
  • @mar look at comments below – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:26
  • @tejasvi88 look at comments below – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:26
  • I would argue that's a bit dogmatic if we look at Pramanas. Scientists using today's technology directly perceive and make observations of what they see. Then, they used inference-making theories supported by empirical evidence. As we can perceive things more accurately and scalably i.e. larger or smaller with technology we get a better understanding of this world. In my view, if a scripture goes against empirical evidence it must be reexamined, reinterpreted, and/or refuted. The Vedas are metaphorical in many cases hence their difficulty for us to understand. – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:27
  • Their poetic properties codify them to ignorant eyes. This is why I love Nyaya which is about investigating and knowledge to find the truth in the Vedas. As Atma and reincarnation science will likely stay neutral on those subjects all we need to prove is how scripture provides the mathematical possibility for it to occur. This is through circumstantial observation. However, the Pramana of postulation which I refer to is weak due to many other possible conclusions which can be derived by postulation. – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:27
  • In regards to spiritual authority the Rishis are supreme and unless you experience it yourself they have Sabda or reliable testimony on their side. In the same way, scientists have empirical testimony on their side. Until however, you can perceive or know what they say is true. Either you accept their model based on their perceptions or you leave the faith. This is for cases when things aren't provable by traditional means. – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:27
  • For example, the Bhagavad Gita has helped me out in life, but to me, its reliability comes from certain circumstances and perceptions that allowed me to feel like a guiding force is with me and while many things could be explained as coincidence my faith or trust that a higher being did it is why I believe. However, I acknowledge my grounds are in trust, and until everyone else can perceive what I can my evidence is anecdotal. – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:28
  • It would be the same for scientific theories if not for the fact that the majority of people can perceive it (utilizing machines) hence it became reliable testimony. This is why in my opinion it's good to get more and more rishis and yogis who can experience these spiritual events. One's direct perception if done correctly is the best proof. When the majority can have similar perceptions or experiences it becomes reliable testimony and eventually fact unless it is proven wrong somehow. – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:29
  • Those who accept the testimony of god or the rishis should be due to the fact they are experts on the spiritual if you believe in such I do, because of my personal experience, but I cannot impose my conclusion based on my experience unto you. Postulation is good when the majority is unable to perceive your argument although weak. – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 02:30
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    To beginwith, there is no conflict between shruti and smriti. There are only differences like if shruti says 10 days of impurity is to be observed, one smriti might say observe 9 days of impurity and another smriti might say observe 11 days of impurity. This difference to accommodate practical challenges when following shruti as-is and not an intention to conflict it. This is explained in manusmriti itself using example of agnihotra performance time – ekAntika Jan 01 '24 at 08:46
  • "Those who accept the testimony of god or the rishis should be due to the fact they are experts on the spiritual if you believe in such I do, because of my personal experience, but I cannot impose my conclusion based on my experience unto you" - just as vaccine-takers cannot impose their conditions to take vaccine on the anti-vaxxer movement, right ? @Haridasa – ram Jan 01 '24 at 13:29
  • @mar Indeed while there is proof both ways that vaccines may be harmful or non-harmful the intended effect of the vaccine is simply to help prevent Covid. If you choose not to take it and trust it that's on you. That being said with Flu Vaccines their is data to show it significantly lowers the chance of getting the flu. – Haridasa Jan 01 '24 at 13:39
  • exactly - the intended effect of rishis/smritis/scriptures is to make you happy. if people choose not to trust it, that's on them. in fact, people were OK with forcing others to take vaccines cos their opinion to not trust it, made them a walking hazard to others. similarly, we should force others to listen to scriptures cos their refusal to not trust it makes them a much worse hazard to others. – ram Jan 01 '24 at 13:42
  • "we should force others to listen to scriptures cos their refusal to not trust it makes them a much worse hazard to others" - @mar

    Where else have we heard that one before, I wonder?

    – tejasvi88 Jan 05 '24 at 10:56
  • @tejasvi88 - "Where else have we heard that one before, I wonder?" literally just couple years ago - when scientists forced their 'scripture' on the masses to take vaccines (which is OK imo), and boosters and prevented them from traveling even for emergencies. It was forced untouchability - but when a gora white coat says it, it's ok, but when your own ancestors say it, it is 'regressive 15th century' – ram Jan 08 '24 at 15:26
  • @tejasvi88 - "I wonder?" - smart, are we ? you mean, how Muslims do not drink alcohol, so we should all drink it, just to BE DIFFERENT ? the difference between conservative religions is in the philosophy, not in tapasya/sense-control. The more you constrict a spring the higher it jumps. Youngsters need to realize that all their chest thumping about how Hinduism is liberal/secular is a recipe for its downfall. You need both an iron hand and a bleeding heart. Either one alone and your religion/society is doomed. – ram Jan 08 '24 at 15:27