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I think the question in the title is complete and needs no further explanation :)

EDIT 1:

@SwamiVishwananda answered here that there is no first birth. But if there is previous birth, maybe that previous birth is the first birth so the question now becomes what is one's previous birth?

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user1415225
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  • Our first birth was due to God's wish.Our karma was not in anyway involved because it did not exist then.All the subsequent births are ,however, the results of our karmas. – Rickross Apr 03 '16 at 13:10
  • Make Q clearer to avoid closure as "not clear". You are asking a belief system. (1) Many say there is always a "previous birth" before any birth chosen (2) Others feel that during beginning of universe, all jiva-s are granted very 1st birth. --Unanimously everyone believes: state of "Moksha" results in last birth. But something which is AnAdi (beginningless as 1), has to be Ananta (endless, no Moksha). To have something "last", there has to be a "first" (as 2). Counter Q against (2) is: how [un]fairly very 1st birth is assigned? Read this Q: http://hinduism.stackexchange.com/q/11000/1049) – iammilind Apr 03 '16 at 13:10
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    Some Hindus believe that there is a first birth of the soul (when the soul was for the first time embodied in a material body in the material world), while some Hindus believe that there is no first birth (they believe that the soul has gone through infinite repeated births and deaths in material bodies lifetime after lifetime from the infinite past, and thus has been born over and over again for infinite rebirths since infinite past). But this has nothing to do with the soul itself, for the soul exists eternally and has never been created. – brahma jijnasa Apr 05 '16 at 15:51
  • @brahmajijnasa Which Hindus believe in a first birth of a soul? – Keshav Srinivasan Apr 06 '16 at 14:42
  • @KeshavSrinivasan Which Hindus believe in a first birth of a soul? Well, let me think ... I myself, all the Gaudiya vaishnavas, all the authorities and vedic sages in this universe including Shukadeva Gosvami and Vyasadeva, all the gods in heaven, ... :) Now, I'm almost absolutely sure that you'll be surprised to hear this, since I have seen your comments on the issue. :) – brahma jijnasa Apr 07 '16 at 17:04
  • @brahmajijnasa Yeah, I am surprised. Baladeva Vidyabhushana says the Jiva has infinite past births in his commentary on Sutra 2.1.35 of the Brahma Sutras: https://bhaktibooks.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/vedanta-sutra_adhyaya_2-1.pdf – Keshav Srinivasan Apr 07 '16 at 22:39
  • @KeshavSrinivasan More about that in our chat room Discussion between Keshav Srinivasan and brahma jijnasa. – brahma jijnasa Apr 08 '16 at 00:43

1 Answers1

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There is no first birth, or incarnation. In Brahma Sutras 2.1.35-36 (Swami Vireswarananda translator) it says:

If it be said (that is) not (possible) for want of any distinction in work (before creation), (we say) no, because of (the world) being without a beginning.

And (that the world is without a beginning is reasonable and is also seen (from the scriptures).

And Sankara’s commentary on verse 35:

…is answered by the Sutra, which says that creation is without a beginning and the question of first creation cannot arise. It is like a seed and its sprout. So the individual souls have always had a previous existence and done good or bad deeds in accordance with which their lot in a subsequent creation is ordained by the Lord.

And his commentary on verse 36:

Reason tells us that creation must be without a beginning. For if the world did not exist in a potential state in the form of Samskaras (impressions), then an absolutely non-existing thing would be produced at creation. In that case even liberated souls might be reborn. Moreover people would be enjoying or suffering without having done anything to deserve it—an instance of an effect without a cause, which is absurd. It cannot be attributed to primeval ignorance, which, being one, requires the diversity of individual past work to produce varied results. The scriptures also posit the existence of the world in former cycles in texts like ‘The Lord devised the sun and moon as before’ (Rg-Veda 10.190.3).

So partiality and cruelty cannot be imputed to the Lord.

Your soul is eternal, it has always had a previous existence, it never had a first birth.

Swami Vishwananda
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  • This answer is in logical contradiction with previous answer: Does “Free Will” really exist, even if universe repeats itself in perfect pattern?. In that answer, you mentioned: "The universe does repeats. -- Brahma Sutras 1.3.30". For the universe to be able to repeat, it needs to have starting point & ending point to form a cycle. Hence there is always a 1st & last birth. The number of cycles can be infinite. But the content of the cycle Must be finite, else it won't be a cycle. If no contradiction, then am I misreading either of the posts? – iammilind Apr 03 '16 at 13:23
  • @iammilind This question is about the first birth of an individual jiva. The individual jiva has an infinite number of births - albeit, not in the current cycle, but stretching back an infinite number of cycles. The question you reference is about the repetition of names and forms. Although the two questions touch on each other, they are not contradictory. I have used the same Brahma Sutra verses for this question as the other question. – Swami Vishwananda Apr 03 '16 at 13:29
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    In that case, I over-understood your previous answer. I will still retain my upvote there. Coming back to this, we have to understand that "infinite" never finishes. If it finishes then it's not "infinite". When you say: "jiva has infinite (past) births", actually takes away possibility of Moksha. World is AnAdi (beginningless) as BS-35, is same as Prakruti & Purusha as AnAdi BG 13.20. But that doesn't make "infinite unique births" for a Jiva. As per Samkhya, Jiva = Prakruti + Purusha. IMO, it may mean, P+P interact in fixed way at beginning of Kalpa & make same 1st birth for a Jiva. – iammilind Apr 03 '16 at 14:06
  • @iammilind Just because the births of a Jiva go infinitely far back in time does not mean they go infinitely forward in time from the present moment. There are infinitely man negative integers in the set of real numbers, but that doesn't prevent 0 from existing. – Keshav Srinivasan Apr 03 '16 at 14:16
  • I support iammilind I want to know the truth ,it is impossible to have infinite birth , if this is my 7th birth or 6999999th birth , what is the first ? – user1415225 Apr 03 '16 at 14:18
  • @mages It is possible to have infinitely many births going infinitely far back in time. And that's not just the view of Adi Shankaracharya; open up any commentary on the Brahma Sutras and you'll find that it says the same thing on this issue. – Keshav Srinivasan Apr 03 '16 at 14:33
  • yes it is possible ... but you must think that you are atma as atma has no birth ... – user1415225 Apr 03 '16 at 14:50
  • but if you are atma ,what do you do here ? atma has no sins ,right ? – user1415225 Apr 03 '16 at 14:56
  • This is confusing.The soul is eternal alright but "we" are taking many births so what is our first birth is a valid question from illusion.But those who had realised the Brahman by direct experience there is no reincarnation for them.but then,for them this site doesn't exist nether does this question.BTW,How did the the acharyas came to their conclusions? Was it by direct experience or by logical arguments? – Rickross Apr 03 '16 at 15:04
  • I have also read that reincarnations/rebirth exist only till illusion and ignorance exist.So rebirth is "mithya" like jagath(as said by Adi Shankara).Then, how can still there be infinitely many births?If it(birth/rebirth) does not exist at all? – Rickross Apr 03 '16 at 15:24
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    @Rickross When we're talking about Advaita, we have to distinguish between the relative perspective (i.e. the perspective of someone within Maya) and absolute perspective (i.e. the perspective of someone who has overcome Maya). From the absolute perspective, there's no such thing as births, all there is is Brahman. From the relative perspective, each individual Jiva has had infinitely many past births going infinitely far back in time. In any case, Acharyas may have received all sorts of revelations, but in their Brahma Sutra commentaries they present arguments grounded in logic and scripture. – Keshav Srinivasan Apr 03 '16 at 16:29
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    @KeshavSrinivasan So these conclusions are dependent on how the acharyas interpret the scriptures?So more acharyas more varied conclusions?Also how valid a knowledge is which is not obtained through direct experience?I think true(absolute)knowledge is only obtained through direct experience and by no other means.I got some suspicion when i found that in one Gita God is saying-"deluded by me the acharyas will promote wrong shastras"Who are these acharyas being referred to?Sorry for my too many questions. – Rickross Apr 03 '16 at 18:55
  • keshavsrinivasan I think your example is wrong , because positive numbers is infinite ,it means we always reincarnate and never achieve mukti – user1415225 Apr 06 '16 at 11:11
  • @user1415225 Well, what I had in mind is 0 is the current birth, the negative integers denote your past births, and 10 denotes the birth in which you get Moksha. You only have infinitely many past births, not infinitely many future births. – Keshav Srinivasan Apr 06 '16 at 14:40