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The Bible unlocks another mystery about the dwelling of God, the place that His Christ is preparing for the saints. There is apparently more than one heaven. Paul wrote of a man who was received in the the third heaven

2 Corinthians 12:2

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

Is there any Biblical verse that explicity unlocks which one is the dwelling of The Most High and His Lamb?

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    I think you need to give a reference for 'the seventh heaven' as well as the third heaven. – Nigel J Dec 31 '23 at 06:50
  • @NigelJ, seven is God's completeness number. He created the world and rested on the seventh day so it follows that he created seven heavens but which one is his dwelling? – So Few Against So Many Dec 31 '23 at 07:08
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    That is a supposition on your own part. I think we need a factual reference in order to give serious consideration to your question. The first heavens are those that are visible. The second heavens are the invisible, angelic 'principalities and powers'. And the third heaven is the dwelling place of the Lord God Almighty where is his throne upon which is seated The Son, of man. – Nigel J Dec 31 '23 at 07:54
  • @NigelJ, the Son of Man is seated at the right hand of that throne. – So Few Against So Many Dec 31 '23 at 08:05
  • @NigelJ, do angels receive saints in the third heaven if it's the dwelling of God? – So Few Against So Many Dec 31 '23 at 08:07
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    The Son of man is seated at the right hand of God, in the same throne. And shares that throne with others. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Revelation 3:21. I do not think you will find (in scripture) any reference to 'seven heavens'. I think you are remembering it from other literature, myself. – Nigel J Dec 31 '23 at 08:09
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    'Saints' to me means 'all believers who are also overcomers'. They are received by Jesus Christ himself to sit with him in the throne. Know ye not that we shall judge angels ? ? – Nigel J Dec 31 '23 at 08:12
  • @NigelJ, there is a difference between the Lamb and the One sitted in the great white throne. The One sent the lamb and not the other way round – So Few Against So Many Dec 31 '23 at 10:18
  • I am set down with my Father in the throne are the words of the Son. – Nigel J Dec 31 '23 at 12:39
  • @NigelJ, then why did the Son say the Father is greater than all – So Few Against So Many Dec 31 '23 at 13:36
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    Because that is a matter of personal relationship within Deity. The Son, of man, that is to say the incarnate Son of God come in humanity, has a relationship to God in respect of his human nature. It is important to see these things in context and not to confuse, or merge, them together. I strongly advise you to read spiritual men who have gone before you, and to learn from them. – Nigel J Dec 31 '23 at 17:47

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Regarding the "seven heavens," the Book of Enoch describes them. It is not accepted as scripture in most churches, but the Ethiopian Orthodox Church does include it, which is why we know about it. The total number of heavens in this scenario is ten, with the throne of God located at the tenth level. Since a version of this book is apparently mentioned in the Letter of Jude 1:14, it is probable that Paul also knew it. Here is a part of what it says about the "third heaven" mentioned by Paul.

they brought me up to the third heaven, and set me down |there|. Then I looked downward, and I saw Paradise. And that place is inconceivably pleasant. I saw the trees in full flower. And their fruits were ripe and pleasant-smelling, with every food in yield and giving off profusely a pleasant fragrance. And in the midst (of them was) the tree of life, at that place where the LORD takes a rest when he goes into paradise. And that tree is indescribable for pleasantness and fine fragrance, and more beautiful than any other...

In this version of Enoch, the throne of God is first glimpsed from the seventh heaven and visited directly in the tenth heaven. A much longer and detailed version of Enoch may also be consulted. The Lamb is not mentioned, as Enoch is a Jewish text and the messianic concept of the Lamb of God is unique to Christianity.

Summary of Enoch in the Tenth Heaven:

Enoch is then brought by Michael into the presence of the Lord in the tenth heaven (chapter 22). The Lord is described as “so very marvelous, and supremely awesome and supremely frightening.” Michael strengthens Enoch and asks the Lord to allow Enoch to stay before the throne of God forever.

Conclusion: Although Enoch is not a biblical text (except in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church), it does give the location of the throne of God in the tenth heaven. It does not mention the Lamb of God.

Dan Fefferman
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This answer is from a 'creation ex nihilo' position. Simply put, since God created everything, including any 'heavens' that exist, He cannot have resided in any 'heaven' prior to creation and therefore, does not need a 'place' to dwell.

But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built! - 2 Chronicles 6:18

Taking the term 'heaven of heavens' as hyperbole incorporating all of the heavens (however many there may be) rather than merely as heaven number 2 and understanding from other contexts where the term is used that the 'heaven of heavens' is both a creation of God and a possession of God:

Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee. - Nehemiah 9:6

Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is. - Deuteronomy 10:14

The meaning intended in 2 Chronicles must certainly be that God is neither contained by nor located in any one specific place within His creation. Although He may appear locally He is not constrained to do so. He is greater than and outside of all of His creation. He is utterly set apart. Holy, Holy, Holy.

If there is some 'place' to be imagined which God inhabits then such a 'place' is not of time, space, and matter. It is labeled for us as 'eternity':

For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. - Isaiah 57:15

Terms such as picture for us some location where God resides within His creation (time, space, and matter) are likely condescensions to our very limited ability to comprehend. As Paul told the 'thinkers' in Athens, "In Him we live, and move, and have our being". Trapped in temporal reality as we are, we struggle mightily to understand even with the gracious condescension in human language:

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? - John 3:12

 

Mike Borden
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  • Up-voted +1, but I think we still need what Paul tells us (the third heaven) and we still need the visions of John in regard to the throne and all that is connected to it. (In my view.) – Nigel J Jan 01 '24 at 20:30
  • What about the Great White Throne? – So Few Against So Many Jan 02 '24 at 04:41
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    @FewAgainstMany-Israel Rev. 4:2 "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven". That which is "seen" by John is spirit and rendered to us in temporal terms so that we may understand. Perhaps God is sitting in a big chair somewhere or perhaps this imagery is attempting to teach us something about sovereignty and judgement or perhaps both. – Mike Borden Jan 02 '24 at 13:26
  • @MikeBorden, that throne is always there and it's eternal. The 24 elders are around it and after that millions of angels – So Few Against So Many Jan 02 '24 at 17:00
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Paul expounds significantly beyond the traditional mode of binary thought regarding the eternal condition of mankind, of everyone going to one Heaven or one Hell.

In speaking of the resurrection of the dead, Paul says:

But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Corinthians 15:35-50)

This implies that of the glories or bodies mentioned, God is at least not in the Terrestrial, which means "earthly", since His being is contrasted with the earthly. The correspondence between these glories and the Sun, Moon and stars might not be explicitly stated, but it stands to reason that the glory of God's presence would be compared to the glory of the Sun rather than to the variableness of the Moon or the relative dimness of distant stars.

I am not aware of any Bible verse that explicitly states which heaven (numerically, according to whatever ordinal assignment of numbers) is the one God Himself inhabits, however, we have that 2 Chronicles 6:18 also refers to multiple heavens, and implies that the greatest of these is even expanding with the greatness of God: "behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee"

What is not clear from the numbers of these heavens in the 2 Corinthians verse alone is whether the ordinal indicates increasing greatness with higher numbers, or whether the first heaven is described as the greatest.

In Section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Lord revealed through the prophet Joseph Smith the nature of these three heavens, referring to them as the Celestial, the Terrestrial, and the Telestial kingdoms or glories. In speaking of those who inherit the Celestial glory, the Lord said: "These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever", therefore God and Christ inhabit the highest, which is the Celestial (also translated as "heavenly", or "heaven of heavens" if you will). This reference states that the "third heaven" spoken of by Paul is the highest where God dwells.

Paul in that same passage says that the man caught up to the third heaven "heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." (2 Corinthians 12:4). What is not lawful for a man to utter in earthly company suggests that this heaven he was in is superior to the earthly glory.

I have previously hypothesized that there may be nine heavens, consisting of three apartments each within three of the major kingdoms of glory. See this revelation for example illustrating this in the case of the highest. Not much has been revealed about the lower sub-kingdoms; apparently God does not think it important for any of us to focus on them, except as it shall be revealed in final judgment for such as will be partakers of them. He has revealed the ultimate goal and urged us to focus on regaining His eternal presence and becoming perfect like Him (see Matthew 5:48), which is exaltation, the details of which would indeed be "unlawful for man to utter" as Paul describes, but the way to get there is incrementally revealed according to the Lord's wisdom and the testing process He has ordained since before the world was formed.

The ancient Chinese--the oldest continuously existing empire and accompanying language--have a tradition of nine heavens, the ninth being the "most exalted".

Ancient Scandinavians also expressly believed in nine heavens, with God the Father of All in the highest of these nine, together with married people who continue to have offspring. These people also had their villages presided over by councils of twelve elders, with three presiding high priests ruling over their civilization, and were recorded to have had gifts of prophecy admired by the resident kings, and gave blessings of fortune.

As with the Flood traditions that occur worldwide, it is not unlikely that these traditions which are found consonantly worldwide are also echoes or manifestations of prior contact with the teachings of Jesus Christ and His prophets regarding the purposes of mortal life and the nature of eternity.

If in another instance people were aware of seven heavens rather than three or nine, it would still be true that God the Father dwells in the highest. Therefore we don't need to get hung up on the number one person is aware of or describing on a particular occasion or the numbering system he applies to them; what is important is the one God dwells in and how to get there. Personally I don't think an ordinal or numerological exam will be required to enter God's presence, but keeping His commandments surely will.

I had arrived at a similar conclusion regarding the plurality of heavens by pondering the Zeeman Effect. The Zeeman effect is that photons branch out into distinct spectral lines in an intense magnetic field. There can also be a fractal effect, so that the photons in one branch or spectral line may further branch out within a broader line. This is analogous to people making different kinds and qualities of decisions when confronted with an opportunity to progress and be tested in this life, which is like a magnetic field, and their eternal destinations accordingly differ according to the degree of their repentance and devotion to God, as evidenced by which commandments they keep. All do not keep the same commandments; breaking the least of them would distance us from God, and the greater the disobedience, the greater the deviation from the presence of God according to eternal justice. This distance will be permanent if not for individual repentance and the Atonement of the Only Begotten Son, and final judgment determines the body and the final abode of resurrection.

See this talk for a very recent (late 2023) expounding of the degrees of glory and the effect our choices in life have on our eternal destination: Think Celestial!

Think Celestial! Similar to the way worldly thinking tries to block out heavenly thoughts, the Moon obscures the Sun, but only temporarily.

pygosceles
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