1

I recently asked a question here and like always some good friends helped me, Their references were right on point and they referred the correct Sutras and i'm forever thankful for that. But when i kept on reading i found it very hard to forgive the author of this particular article on Cakkavatti Sihanada Sutta.

I do not know who that person is but he has written a review on the teaching on a site that most of us use as a reference source. The only question was that he had taken the teaching and given historic definitions of his own to certain parts of that sutra. He somehow say that "King Alexander the great" is the person that Buddhists took inspiration to form a story on Devas and the great king who make earth his empire.

Here is some....

Discourses such as the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta (D 16) and the Mahā Sudassana Sutta (D 17) allude to “the celestial city of the devas,” Āḷakamandā,28 which could be Alexandria on the Indus, founded by Alexander the Great in 325 BCE, or Alexandria-of-the-Caucasus,29 some 150 km north of today’s Kabul in Afghanistan. Possibly, the stories about Alexander (the prototype of the world conqueror) and the subsequent presence of the Indo-Greeks,30 inspired the ancient Buddhists to formulate the “great man” ideology.

So according to this person Sutra pitaka of tipitaka is a work of fiction. I want to be honest, i was real angry when i saw someone quoting the teaching and telling the world that it is a work of fiction, i was very ashamed of the fact that one of his own references was from a man from my own country.I would also like to request our good friends here to read the whole article before posting as an answer,because someone might get caught up in the wrong side of the isle after reading some person's foolish efforts to review Lord Buddha's realization.

Please give me some good advice on how to deal with such people. (I would love an answer from Ven.Samana Johann)

Community
  • 1
Theravada
  • 3,953
  • 15
  • 43

7 Answers7

6

someone might get caught up in the wrong side of the isle after reading some person's foolish efforts

There will always be reviews coming from writers who are not comfortable with things like heavens and divine beings. People with materialistic views will be drawn to such articles naturally. If you get angry at them, you might be clinging to the Dhamma as "my religion" or "my belief".

Having everybody to believe in the same thing is not the goal and wanting that to happen will only frustrate you. The goal is to use the Dhamma to attain Nibbana. You can certainly help others to stay away from misinformation while doing that, but it should come from compassion, not clinging or aversion.

Sankha Kulathantille
  • 25,668
  • 1
  • 22
  • 64
3

In the suttas, we see the Buddha regarding a wise person one who reflects that grasping and insisting firmly on a view would create clashes and disputes with those who hold a different view. "Where there is a dispute, quarreling. Where there is quarreling, annoyance. Where there is annoyance, frustration.' Envisioning for himself clash, dispute, quarreling, annoyance, frustration, he both abandons that view and does not cling to another view. Thus there is the abandoning of these views; thus there is the relinquishing of these views." (MN I 500)

He also sets an example when saying:

“Bhikkhus, I do not dispute with the world; rather, it is the world that disputes with me. A proponent of the Dhamma does not dispute with anyone in the world. Of that which the wise in the world agree upon as not existing, I too say that it does not exist. And of that which the wise in the world agree upon as existing, I too say that it exists.

-- SN 22.94

Also, as a side note, the language used in the article, it's propositions are that of hypothesis. In other words, the author is speculating about it, conducting an inquiry (e.g. note the use of "possibly") and drawing parallels -- like any historian would do. So, he does not seem to be defending or promoting any position as a fact. And because he is just offering alternatives, he is not really leading or misleading. After all, as a matter of principle, when an author offers alternative possibilities (e.g. "it's possible that a person is guilty of certain crime"), he/she is not accounted for readers who decide to remove the provisory character of the statement without reflection and simply believe the possibility to be true (e.g. "the person is certainly guilty of certain crime"). In this way, readers can mislead themselves but the author is not responsible for it.

  • so weird these things need to be spelled out in a conversation of adults )))) – Баян Купи-ка Mar 23 '16 at 13:05
  • 2
    You make a valid point Thiago, It is just that we are not used to looking for alternative explanations to dhamma here (My country). We take it as an offence to the Lord's wisdom. I guess this is what happens when traditions and values collide. I'll do better next time. Thank you. – Theravada Mar 23 '16 at 17:17
  • the concept of taking offence is alien to the Buddha and his Dhamma, it almost is an insult to the purity and sublimity of the Dhamma and everything it stands for, it's like the Buddha's entire ministry was in vain – Баян Купи-ка Mar 26 '16 at 00:05
2

It's typical human nature why forum like this or chiritinity or religion exists and consequently their misunderstandings.

That's why some buddhist sectors keep in very hermited to preserve authority and the jewel intact.

Buddha's teaching knowledge alone can be a hinderance to seeing what he realized. It's not knowledge building. You have to meditate and experience. When you build a knowledge while have a strong ego, which ironically it means it can be a danger and might better off not studying at all.

Buddha said everything in simple terms 2500 years ago. That's all you need to know. Wisdom and whaever written in sutras as knowledge, interpretation, findings, they all come at once without studying them just when one see the glimpse of the truth.

Sea embraced moon
  • 61
  • 2
2

Please email Mr. Piya Tan for clarification.
TheMindingCentre @ Gmail.com or Dharmafarer @ Gmail.com

That's the best way to deal with it.

Kaveenga Wijayasekara
  • 1,665
  • 10
  • 13
2

Any commentary on the Suttas by anyone is a personal opinion or explanation on that Sutta. If your opinion differs than just leave aside what you do not find agreeable.

Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena
  • 36,981
  • 3
  • 28
  • 82
2

Any commentary on the Suttas by anyone is a personal opinion. For example, I personally rarely agree with the commentaries of Piya Tan. Similarly, often other people do not agree with my personal views of the suttas.

In Buddhism, we can only deal with this using non-attachment because, in reality, there is not much consensus in Buddhism. My impression is many Buddhist groups & sects have idiosyncratic & worldly agendas.

It is only by letting go of craving & attachment can the true reality of Buddha-Dhamma be known.

Dhamma Dhatu
  • 41,600
  • 2
  • 31
  • 80
  • I mean no disrespect to Piya tan, but he was the reason for the question. And i do think you are right Dhammadhatu – Theravada Aug 31 '16 at 09:11
1

Piya Tan is a renown and respectable Buddhist scholar and lay Dhamma teacher

to some it may come as a surprise but Tipitaka is not a literal Buddhavacana, it's a man's creation, especially the mythical motifs, based on the teachings of the historical Buddha

just as the Bible is not the literal word of God but a creation of men, as has been demonstrated by the extensive biblical research on many levels

consequently Mahaparinibbana sutta was not composed or narrated by the Buddha, but is a result of literary efforts of subsequent generations of Buddhists

nevertheless this fact doesn't devaluate and doesn't invalidate this corpus of texts

on how to deal with such people my advice is to apply towards them all four brahmaviharas

Баян Купи-ка
  • 1,683
  • 9
  • 10
  • Dear friend Tipitaka was written in my country and it is not a work of fiction or a made up story. If Tipitaka is man made story what is left as genuine Buddhism? – Theravada Mar 23 '16 at 17:19
  • 1
    maybe it was written in your country but composed it had been long before that in India and passed down through generations as oral tradition... genuine are ideas, the actual Dhamma, of course some historical facts did survive but we hardly can securely separate them from the fictitious, at the very least we can disavow mythical motives as historical facts – Баян Купи-ка Mar 26 '16 at 00:02
  • 1
    please don't forget there're translations of the Tipitaka into Sanskrit and Chinese which are independent of the Pali Canon because they belong to ancient schools other than Theravada and so although the wording, text structure, plots and even facts may vary, it's been established that the core ideas are shared by all extant versions of the Tipitaka – Баян Купи-ка Mar 26 '16 at 00:12
  • First of all i'm sorry for giving an statement that is incomplete. Forgive me, i was talking about the Theravada' Tipitaka. Here in my country we do not take any part of the teaching as a fiction so it was a bit uncomfortable seeing it treated that way. While i respect your discretion i feel like leaving a few questions if you kindly take the time to answer. As none of us are an Arahat or ever seen a real Arahat, what realization do we have to pick fiction from reality? & Looking at tipitaka i have not seen a single note that is either harmful to me or another, so if i openly practice..... – Theravada Mar 26 '16 at 22:20
  • ......all of it without any discrimination ii see no harm coming from that, But if i count a real teaching out thinking that it is fake or fiction more and more harm might come from that so isn't it better to take it as a whole than trying to pick good from fake when i don't have all the facts straight? Namo Buddhaya! – Theravada Mar 26 '16 at 22:22
  • 1
    i like your approach and difference of the opinions must be coming from a difference in a cultural background, your question is valid if we assume that everything said in the Canon is the word of the Buddha and/or of the Arahants, but i don't believe it to be necessarily so. – Баян Купи-ка Mar 26 '16 at 23:18
  • 1
    In the West everything is measured by the actual experience, and since i for example have never encountered any deity or ghost in my life it's difficult to take stories about their appearances as facts plausible in the real world, the Dhamma on the other hand for practice luckily doesn't require belief in possibility of interaction with deities, neither it is a requirement for the Right View – Баян Купи-ка Mar 26 '16 at 23:18
  • Yes, like you said the culture matters. But i would like to give my opinion on this if you don't mind. Once the verification of a thing happens only through experience. It can easily come very close to something like scientism. Lord Buddha directly said one thing in the teaching that we all Buddhists believe without a difference between all schools of Buddhism. And that is that there are things that a noble one has understood and currently unavailable for a normal person, But once that person reach that higher state of mind he or she will also experience.... – Theravada Mar 27 '16 at 18:37
  • ....Until a person reaches the necessary state these knowledge and experiences is unavailable. And because of this one must accept the teaching's word on that. Also i would like to point that the essentials mentioned By Lord Buddha as the utmost requirements for a Buddhist. They are - Believing in Karma and it's outcomes, There is birth in certain parts of the universe (Realms) in which a mother or father does not take part, Belief that there are special people who deserve more respect and care (Like parents), And that the mind can be developed.... – Theravada Mar 27 '16 at 18:44
  • Lord Buddha said this and explained why. If a person does not believe that there can't be a birth without the participation of parents (Like in Deva/ Brahma higher realms and Lower realms of pain) that person will not see the danger of samsara. Because obviously there is nothing huge to fear about living a human life, Lord Buddha directly pointed out that the biggest threat to the beings is the lower Hellish realms of pain. But one can never see these with eyes unless the mind is more developed. For example if one only believes in what he or she can experience there is..... – Theravada Mar 27 '16 at 18:49
  • ..... no reason to for him or her to believe in Karma,Realms, Cause and effect. The sad fact is that this kind of a person even does not have a reason to Believe inn Lord Buddha's realization being right. After this ideology, what is left is a bunch of logics and theories that is presented in the teaching that has no meaning without their supporting teachings. For example if a person does not believe in higher realms how could he or she believe in Lord Buddha?After all that is the last birthplace of all the Bodhisattvas.This is a good dialog that we have,hope to hear your reply. Namo Buddhaya! – Theravada Mar 27 '16 at 18:54
  • Wise words my friend – Theravada Aug 31 '16 at 09:13