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This pertains to an American university graduate program.

A TA recently surprised me with a proposition to marry her (we've neither dated nor hooked up), so that she could obtain a green card to stay in the United States -- she wants to leave the STEM fields and go into the creative / artsy stuff (eg, dreams of having a creative career in Los Angeles), which means she likely won't earn a work visa to stay in the US.

She essentially offered a blank check from her family, so long as the amount is less than the investment green card amount of 500k dollars (something that I did not know even existed).

My question is: putting aside legal, personal and ethical questions, what are the academic implications of this situation? At what point could I get into trouble with the university; from having such discussions with her or later, if I actually did something? Could I be dismissed from the university or have my degree revoked later on? What about implications regarding any funding that I might have from the university or from the government (eg, grants, loans)?

Edit: Thanks to those offering marriage strategies and interpretations of the law, but I had hoped to stay on-topic and focus on the academic implications. Currently, I am reduced to voting for an on-topic answer that I have some qualms about, since, as mentioned in Dan Romik's comments, the answerer focuses on reporting harassment, when I have not been harassed at all. Perhaps the community can vote to reopen the question to allow for more, on-topic answers.

Tom Au
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User001
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    If you don't mind paying a $250K fine and going to prison for five years, I assume a bit of trouble from the university won't really be that much of a deterrent. – Dan Romik Feb 24 '17 at 03:21
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    @DanRomik That seems like a pretty good answer already –  Feb 24 '17 at 03:34
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    What is your role in the university? The question does not specify if you are her supervisor, or she is teaching you, or something else. – Anonymous Physicist Feb 24 '17 at 03:43
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    Well, first the obvious question. Is she cute? That aside, why not suggest to her she stick to the STEM fields while trying to attain citizenship a legal route. If that fails, she could always try to find someone she is romantically attracted to get married, and kill two birds with one stone. Personally, I cannot believe anyone in Academia worth a damned would attempt to pull this stunt. – NZKshatriya Feb 24 '17 at 04:43
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    I don't see how this question is about academia. –  Feb 24 '17 at 08:02
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    I remember the series House MD, where he did the same thing for a girl and I think he went into trouble later. I recommend watching those episodes – polfosol Feb 24 '17 at 08:06
  • I wonder: would this qualify as sexual harassment (by the TA against the OP)? In short, as Dan implies, the implications with the university are the least of your worries. The definitely or possibly illegal things that are going on here are a much bigger concern. – zibadawa timmy Feb 24 '17 at 08:47
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    I'm not sure I understand this blank check thing. Why would anyone need to stay in graduate school even for 3 days if they had that kind of cash (~100k)? She could be on a tourist visa and look for marriage opportunities for as long as she pleases. Is there a different angle to this? –  Feb 24 '17 at 09:07
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    Are there any conjugal benefits thrown in to sweeten the deal? – TheMathemagician Feb 24 '17 at 09:46
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    @Roland The OP seems to have assumed that the main problem would be with university policies, which is about academia, and was probably not aware of the federal felony aspect. – Patricia Shanahan Feb 24 '17 at 10:34
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    @zibadawatimmy offer was in no way sexual, so it's not sexual harassment. It may be "incitement to commit a crime", punishable in most jurisdictions, though. – Mołot Feb 24 '17 at 11:06
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    Unless you intend to stay married it's definitely visa fraud. – maniak1982 Feb 24 '17 at 11:37
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    You can also get screwed later with the divorce. Technically, you share everything after being married. – the_lotus Feb 24 '17 at 12:34
  • This is "bad idea" writ large. – Bob Jarvis - Слава Україні Feb 24 '17 at 13:47
  • How come you're willing to marry someone you don't love ? – Saikat Feb 24 '17 at 13:56
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    @user230452 Western civilization has long tradition of marrying without love. Things like dynasty, not willing to be alone, gaining reputation (married man have much higher chance to become president, for example) or even simply money played a significant role for ages, quite literally. Love and marriage is not something that goes together, it's only a comfortable lie for children and noble, but often not achievable dream. – Mołot Feb 24 '17 at 14:50
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    Why is everyone assuming OP wants to accept? The question clearly states “Could I get into trouble with the university from having such discussions with her?“ that's a different question .. – DonQuiKong Feb 24 '17 at 15:03
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    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's a legal question, not particular to academia. – David Ketcheson Feb 24 '17 at 15:10
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    There is not enough information here. What kinds of "discussions" are you asking about? Are you intending to get more information out of her to dissuade her? Do you mean to get more information before you move forward and take the proposal seriously? Does "discussions" mean saying no to her and leaving it at that? What is your goal here? And the best answers to any of these could also depend on what your relationship to the TA. The consequences for a faculty member would be different than a student. – syntonicC Feb 24 '17 at 15:23
  • @the_lotus prenup? – Michael Feb 24 '17 at 16:05
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    I cast the final vote, and apparently I clicked the wrong close reason... it should have been "because this is not relevant to academia". My fault. – eykanal Feb 24 '17 at 16:12
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    I'm trying to understand what you want answers to focus on.You want to know what sort of trouble you could conceivably get into (both in terms of academic standing and funding) if...what? If you said to her, "Sure, let's get married and live together as allies in this endeavor," but then your efforts were to fail and the marriage were deemed bogus for immigration purposes? I hope you realize you wouldn't get an interview appointment for quite some time, and you'd be going to extraordinary efforts for months. Did my answer not convince you that the chances of succeeding with this are miniscule? – aparente001 Feb 24 '17 at 19:40
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    @aparente001, I am grateful for your detailed answer and additional links to refer to, but it is actually an off-topic answer that addresses marriage strategy and legal issues of the TA's proposition. I want to focus on the academic implications, as I noted in the Edit to my question. – User001 Feb 24 '17 at 19:46
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    Yes, I saw your edit, and I really am trying to understand what you actually want the answer to focus on. For the purposes of your question, should I assume that you accept her proposal, make a sincere effort to make it work, but then the USCIS says they don't believe the two of you got married for the usual reasons (as opposed to a plot to obtain a green card)? – aparente001 Feb 24 '17 at 19:48
  • @aparente001 (4 years later but) good question! – BCLC Apr 02 '21 at 07:12

5 Answers5

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I am a U.S. citizen and happen to have a foreign spouse, so I've had some personal experience with this.

It could conceivably work if the two of you had known each other intimately for some time, even if you had a George Bernard Shaw, separate bedrooms kind of relationship. But if you are just acquaintances, it is unlikely the two of you would get through the interview process successfully. In separate interviews, you would be asked an unpredictable set of questions about your shared personal history. There are sample interview questions posted online, e.g. https://www.usavisanow.com/marriage-green-card/marriage-green-card-faq/marriage-green-card-interview/ and http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/what-happens-green-card-marriage-interview.html.

In addition, USCIS (formerly INS) would need to see documentation that your finances have been shared and inextricably intertwined for some time.

You could enjoy the fantasy together for an evening, with the Dépardieu film Green Card.

P.S. I have heard about a businessman's visa, which her budget might be enough for, but I don't know much about it.

aparente001
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    Why don't these ethical dilemmas ever happen to me? – NZKshatriya Feb 24 '17 at 04:47
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    @NZKshatriya - Ha ha! // But seriously, I don't see this as an ethical dilemma. The plan would fail on the practicalities long before it became an ethical dilemma. – aparente001 Feb 24 '17 at 04:52
  • True, but I couldn't come up with a better term than ethical dilemma. And since when do males in general let practicalities get in their/(our?) way. – NZKshatriya Feb 24 '17 at 04:59
  • Heh, I don't think the OP was approaching this from a romantic standpoint.... – Teacher KSHuang Feb 24 '17 at 11:42
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    I, too, am a U.S. citizen with a foreign spouse who now has a green card. She was interviewed in her home country by the USCIS, but I was not even though I filed all the paperwork myself (their only contact with me was sending the bill for each stage of the process...) Of course, we were married and lived together in her home country for six years before I got homesick. Her interview didn't go too well until she produced several photo albums of us and both of our families together from various trips when my parents spent time visiting us. – Kevin Rubin Feb 24 '17 at 14:47
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    blank check is not reduced by $500k, it's capped at under $500k... – Michael Feb 24 '17 at 16:09
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    @KevinRubin - So glad to hear you got it straightened out without having to pay a lawyer an arm and a leg. – aparente001 Feb 24 '17 at 19:29
  • @Michael - I've taken that part out. I think I was not reading the monetary part of your question properly. Thanks for explaining. – aparente001 Feb 24 '17 at 19:32
  • @NZKshatriya just so i understand the joke: is that like a heterosexual male asking 'why didn't i have these female teachers back in school?' in response to news of (otherwise consensual) sexual relationships between (non-underage, so exclude student teachers and similar loopholes) heterosexual female teachers and underage male students? – BCLC Apr 02 '21 at 07:16
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Since you have posted the question on here already, it means that you actually thought about doing so with her.

I advise not to, as this is clearly illegal ("get married so she can get a green card"). This could result in being fined and put in jail as well (like one comment mentioned about it). See here for more information.

With Trump being the new President, things have gone in a hard way for international students who want to become US citizen to obtain a green card. She clearly does not have confidence in her academic ability to stay here, thus trying to lie to the government by "buying" a green card. You should not deal with liar like this.

P.s: I'm international student.

Tylor
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    Well, thinking about something is not the same as leaning towards doing it, but I see your point. –  Feb 24 '17 at 04:05
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    Well, currently in the USA discussions on less than legal topics are, well, legal. Whether or not this will remain the case for long remains to be seen. note: I am completely politically biased, I despise both major parties equally :P – NZKshatriya Feb 24 '17 at 04:45
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    @NZKshatriya: But "conspiracy to commit " is a thing. If you discuss murdering someone and then that person ends up dead at the hand of the person you were talking to, and someone finds out, you're going to have a hard time. It's not as simple as "it's legal to have discussions". – Lightness Races in Orbit Feb 24 '17 at 11:29
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm no legal expert, but I was under the impression that you need to have actual plans for a conspiracy charge. I think "just talking" is at a lower level than that, and is not chargeable – Shokhet Feb 24 '17 at 13:51
  • @Shokhet Exactly. Discussing something that is illegal, and planning to do something that is illegal, are two different things. There is a little thing called freedom of expression in the USA, and "just talking" still falls under that..... – NZKshatriya Feb 24 '17 at 14:13
  • @Shokhet: Right but the line between the two is extremely thin. NZK might be surprised to discover how not very far the "freedom of expression! USA! USA!" jingoism actually gets you when you've been hauled in for questioning. Of course, that misapprehension is no accident; it's all part of the propaganda machine that has been amazingly successful there over the last few hundred years. ;) – Lightness Races in Orbit Feb 24 '17 at 14:16
  • Well, I'm saying that "marrying her so she can get a green card" is illegal. It's probably because I'm not English native speaker so my sentence is not clear enough. – Tylor Feb 24 '17 at 14:40
7

I'm going to more practical than the rest of the lot, and act as the 'devil's attorney'. In no way am I telling you to do something illegal. I'll be discussing a what if scenario, and maybe a possible book/film plot.

To marry there doesn't need to be love or any kind of other feelings. It'll depend on the amount of time she's willing to wait.

You definitely need to hook up with her, and have some sort of public relationship with her for at least 7-8 months. But by the way the world is heading, the youngsters these days don't even need to be publicly monogamous or faithful, so you'll just post on your face account something crass like as 'open relationship'. Stay with her, go the public events, share several photos on facebook and instagram and all that other crp millennials do. You'll need to know her a lot better, create joint plans for the future(kids, work,etc), even if you do not plan to go ahead with them. You'll need to fake every aspect of a married life. The key is to not over-fantasize. Be truthful in your planning, so as to better sell the idea. Your parents cannot know. In fact, her family should also not know. Do this in a way that she tells her family that she's in fact in love with you, and it's not a matter of a green card. It must look the part in every way. Go to thanks-giving with her, and all that things. You'll need to sell it to your and her family also. Visit her family a few times. If someone tells anything, then it's over.

After 7-8 months together, tie the knot. Afterwards, you'll have to wait for at least a year, year and half, so as not to arouse suspicions. During that period, with some joint account, you start to transfer some small random amounts, in a random time frame, until you get it done. Most divorces happen in two-three years within marriage, in the last months of your arrangement, move out, pretend she was tired of your infidelities. Make it seem like a rough divorce, but not so rough as to make you really mad and spill the beans...

It's never been easier to fake a marriage as in the time we live in.

This would be feasible only for those who would be in it for the long-run, and who knows... you might in fact fall in love with her.

An old man in the sea.
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You haven't specified what you role is in this university. If you are a professor/lecturer/instructor, then you are one level of power ahead of her, and any romantic or sexual involvement can be considered as harassment and can lead you to a huge problem and potential job loss. Moreover, it is highly unethical, as there is a power difference between both of you.

If you are a student of her, then she holds the power in your relationship, and so you could contact the Title IX office and claim she is harassing you because of such approximations.

In any case, as it has been already commented, her suggestion is something totally illegal, apart from unethical and irresponsible.

Anna SdTC
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    "If you are a student of her, then she holds the power in your relationship, and so you could contact the Title IX office and claim she is harassing you because of such approximations" A bit off-topic, but I find the mindset implicit in this sentence quite disturbing: OP clearly does not feel harassed, so why are you advising him of his rights to complain about harassment? It seems that you take the view that in any relationship involving a power differential, the "lower power" party must necessarily feel harassed or made to feel shamed or guilty for participating in unethical conduct. ... – Dan Romik Feb 24 '17 at 08:38
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    ... But while there is certainly a potential for harrassment, such situations could involve a completely legitimate and sincere mutual attraction (e.g. a friend of mine dated and later married and had kids with a woman in the class he was TAing for; he did wait until the end of the semester before asking her out). So let's keep some perspective about such things and not view everything through the prism of harassment. To clarify, I'm speaking generally here, not about OP's particular and very unique situation. – Dan Romik Feb 24 '17 at 08:40
  • @DanRomik Technically, sexual harassment suits do not have to be brought by the immediately involved parties. The EEOC's guidance on the matter says "The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct." It does mention that the harasser's actions have to be "unwelcome", but does not seem to specify to whom it is unwelcome; the previous line would suggest it suffices for it to be unwelcome to someone who is affected by it, even if indirectly. Still a stretch for the OP's situation... – zibadawa timmy Feb 24 '17 at 08:54
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    +1 since unlike all the other answers, this one addresses the academic implications, and thus is actually within the scope of this site. – Nate Eldredge Feb 24 '17 at 17:01
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    @Nate Yes, I am also surprised about the amount of unprofessional/unacademic advice in this is thread. – Anna SdTC Feb 24 '17 at 18:28
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    Thanks for your answer, Anna; I think that, based on the comments and answers given here over the last half-day or so, I will select your answer, primarily because it is on-topic (eg, academic implications) -- although I do have to agree with @DanRomik's comments... – User001 Feb 24 '17 at 18:33
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    Well, I didn't want to accuse anyone of harassment, but rather discuss the academic-context implications that the story may have. I am sorry if I came out as an accuser. However, I think that, if someone is willing to take the huge risk of marrying for a green card, then they are also likely to play dirty game in other contexts (accusing someone else of harassment, not taking a "no" for a response, etc.) so I felt like I needed to point out the resources you have in an academic context if the situation goes out of hand. – Anna SdTC Feb 24 '17 at 19:14
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    @AnnaSdTC ah, excellent points... – User001 Feb 24 '17 at 19:53
  • Basically whoever/whomever is higher is the harasser because 'I'm allowed to sexually harass my boss' ? (in the case the joke/heuristic is not understood: the character allison i guess is making the claim that 'if you don't date me, then our working relationship is over' is harassment from employer to employee but not harassment from employee to employer' [and i guess there's no comment for co-employee to co-employee] ) – BCLC Apr 02 '21 at 07:14
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As others have pointed out, you could go to the stripy hole for that.

Her family seem to have enough money, so let’s think about that artsy business she wants. Who would be funding that? Obviously her family are going to have to put in a few $100k for that, if it ever manterializes.

So – for you: run, don’t walk, to the nearest exit. Tell her firmly that the answer so “NO”, and that you won’t discuss the matter again.

That’s all that you need to do – for you. You can stop reading right here.

If you want to help her, try to get it through to her why this is a bad idea. Even if she did find a mug, they could both end up in prison, years later when they had long forgotten their “harmless white lie”; the marriage could be declared illegal & void, she could be deported (after leaving prison) and lose her lovely artsy business.

Perhaps if you explain it in those terms, her family will find that they can afford the full $500k to invest in the business and get her the green card.

(and I would not suggest to her that said business could do business with her family’s business back home, which benefits the family business to the tune of a few $100k ;-)

Lightness Races in Orbit
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Mawg says reinstate Monica
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