I've heard anecdotally that some mothers will list the dates of birth of their children on their CV, but I've never seen it done myself. The intended effect seems to provide a kind of excuse for lower output around those dates, I suppose. Is this common? Am I totally misinterpreting the motive?
8 Answers
This is common in Europe. Parents are not supposed to (and to some extent not allowed to) work during maternity or paternity leave. Thus, such periods are deducted from your phd-age, tenure clock etc.
Quoting from the ERC Starting Grant 2017 call:
For maternity, the effective elapsed time since the award of the first PhD will be considered reduced by 18 months or if longer by the documented amount of leave actually taken for each child born before or after the PhD award. For paternity, the effective elapsed time since the award of the first PhD will be considered reduced by the documented amount of paternity leave actually taken for each child born before or after the PhD award.
And from one of the largest commercial foundations supporting basic research in Denmark, which explicitly states that the CV should contain this information:
In the case of maternity leave, the number of months on leave, times two, will be deducted from the seniority. The specific dates for the period of maternity leave must be clearly stated in the CV/resume.
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5"In the case of maternity leave, the number of months on leave, times two, will be deducted from the seniority." Times two? – T.J. Crowder Aug 27 '16 at 10:50
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3@TJCrowder Yes, indeed times two (and maternity leave here is a slight mistranslation of the Danish term "barsel" which is gender neutral). – Tobias Kildetoft Aug 27 '16 at 12:48
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23Times two (at at least >1 makes sense). A newborn does not suddenly stop needed lots of attention, time and energy after maternity leave is over. – Hennes Aug 27 '16 at 14:36
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5Listing periods of parental leave in your CV is not really the same as giving your children's date of birth, though. The latter seems to make as much sense professionally as (say) listing your children's names. – Dan Petersen Aug 27 '16 at 19:54
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1@DanPetersen: That depends on how tightly coupled (by law in the place where it happens) the birth date and certain important dates for, say, maternity leave (staet, end, ...) are. Why not provide the nost concise piece of information (date of birth), if the other information can be deduced from it? – O. R. Mapper Aug 28 '16 at 15:13
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5@DanPetersen "[Listing the child's date of birth] seems to make as much sense professionally as (say) listing your children's names." Of course not. The date of birth often explains things in the CV such as gaps in the "talk at conferences list", changes in position and such which sometimes make committees members stumble. Note that hiring processes in the US and elsewhere (at least in same places in Europe) are quite different in many respects and one particular instance is that in Europe some data is used that is explicitly forbidden to use in the US (such as gender, age, family status…). – Dirk Aug 28 '16 at 15:17
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3@Dirk I understand that there's a large cultural difference between the US and Europe about these things. What puzzles me is that I'm a European working in Europe and I'd be extremely surprised to see children's date of birth on a CV, but I'm seeing these comments here saying that it's a common phenomenon in Europe. In what European country is this supposed to be common? – Dan Petersen Aug 28 '16 at 16:55
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5Germany. Most. CVs I've seen have birth dates of children, sometimes even names! – Dirk Aug 28 '16 at 17:00
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1I'm sorry but this answer only applies to a subset of European countries. I would remove the first sentence and specify in which countries this applies. – Cape Code Aug 31 '16 at 10:52
Well, I uncovered a few via Google search, so they definitely exist. It seems to be more of a European thing - which is probably because maternity/paternity leave here is often more generous than, say, the States - so taking your six month entitlement will result in a more noticeable gap in your CV. I wouldn't describe it as an 'excuse for lower output' though - more an explanation of what would otherwise be a gap in the CV. Also, it should be noted that it is not limited to mothers.
If you conduct a search on a term such as 'academic cv "child born"' you will find a number of examples of male and female academics who provide the dates of birth of their children in their CV.
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3I don't see how this answers the question. The question asks whether it's common and why people do it; linking to four random women's CVs does nothing to answer either of those things. And it's kinda creepy. – David Richerby Aug 27 '16 at 00:02
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2It does not seem to be common but it does occur, particularly in Europe. People do it to explain why there is a gap in their CV. I linked to the CVs to provide examples in support of what I was saying. Finally, I felt it might be of interest to people to see that this is not unique to women, which is why I linked to a man's CV as well as three women's. – rhm Aug 27 '16 at 00:09
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3Just to say, that I never intended to be 'creepy' by including examples, @RoboKaren was looking for evidence which is why I included links but I have amended to give the search term I used. – rhm Aug 27 '16 at 00:31
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"Creepy" wasn't really the right word. But introducing specific examples risks making the discussion unnecessarily personalised. Also, please bear in mind that there are half a billion people in Europe. Four people does not a phenomenon make. – David Richerby Aug 27 '16 at 00:41
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25I live in a European country with generous parental leave laws, but I've never seen this. What is common are entries in CVs along the lines of "Feb 2012-Aug 2012. Paternity leave." In particular, if you're applying for grants and jobs and there's a rule that applicants can't be more than X years out of their Ph.D., you are often allowed to deduct time spent on parental leave, so it's important that the exact duration is on the CV. – Dan Petersen Aug 27 '16 at 04:58
An alternative that I've seen (though not often) and which feels a bit less weird to my American eyes, is to list the time of parental leave under the employment section. These are the two examples I remember, and which made a positive impression on me as handling this point very nicely. Including the details of employment status (change of title, travel leave, parental leave) seems clearly relevant to me, while listing birthdays of children feels like it's mentioning things I'm not supposed to be considering during hiring (family status) and comes off as strangely European in the same way as putting a photo or your age on a CV.
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1In the US, I have seen this a few times when they are concerned about a "gap" in employment - only a few times. – MikeP Aug 27 '16 at 15:56
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2Adding the Personal details on a professional CV's such as birthdate, age, spouse's names, marriage status, gender, ... make many US readers cringe. Details of employment status when stated at a higher level (parental leave, etc) work well and don't give impression of being naive to US expectations. I really don't care and feel embarrased knowing if it was twins or not, or if it was parental leave to care for orphaned nieces and nephews. – Carol Aug 29 '16 at 20:49
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Likely this came up often already but on: "comes off as strangely European in the same way as putting a photo" It is only to be hoped no-one has photos on their professional websites or at least no-one looks at these sites in that context. Incidentally, in the other direction I subjectively feel to see more family photos and other personal information on US 'professional' websites than on European ones. – quid Aug 29 '16 at 21:25
Australian perspective: There are many situations in academia where family commitments would be taken into consideration when evaluating academic output. A few obvious contexts include: grant applications, job applications, and promotion applications.
Grants: As with the European example, most Australian early- and mid-career grants which are defined in terms of years post-PhD allow for that date to be extended based on parenting commitments.
For example (quotes thanks to @Joel), the ARC (the main government grant giving body in Australia for non-health related grants) state that:
"Periods of unemployment, or any career interruptions for child birth, carers’ responsibilities, misadventure, or debilitating illness will be taken into account." - source
Or for this year's DECRA grants (i.e., a major early career grant in Australia):
"A DECRA Candidate must at the closing time of submission of Proposals: have been awarded a PhD on or after 1 March 2010 or ...The ARC may grant an Eligibility Exemption for the DECRA Candidate who has been awarded a PhD on or after 1 March 2006, together with periods of significant career interruption... The following types of interruption will be considered... maternity or parental leave..."
Employment: Many universities would have HR policies related to employment and promotion that look at what is sometimes called "achievement relative to opportunity". In such cases, time off due to parenting responsibilities reduces the "opportunity" part of the equation.
Legal/cultural context: More generally, Australia (as with many countries) has anti-discrimination legislation. This creates legal obligations, and it also forms part of a broader cultural initiative. Universities (who award jobs and promotions) and the government (who award the big grants) tend to be progressive on such matters. Anti-disrimination legislation include many categories, but of particular relevance here are parental status and sex (i.e., females are more likely to take leave and have more of the primary care responsibilities, especially in the months leading up to birth and the year or so post-birth).
Implications for CVs: I think it would be more common to have a couple of sentences explaining the timing of parental leave and noting that consequently academic output was reduced during that period. That way, the relevance between the birth dates and the CV is made more explicit.
Language and the word "excuse": Finally, I wanted to comment on your statement (my bolding):
The intended effect seems to provide a kind of excuse for lower output around those dates.
It is not meant to be an excuse. I think the word "excuse" implies that reduced output needs justifying. Rather, the legal context and the associated cultural change is trying to frame parenting commitments as fundamental to a functioning society. So instead, evaluating output relative to opportunity is framed as "the default". Therefore, for some people opportunity is indexed by time. But for people who have had major parental obligations, it is indexed differently to incorporate the time away due to parenting commitments. Perhaps, this is a subtle distinction, but I think it is important.
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It may be worth adding this quote from the ARC webpage: "Periods of unemployment, or any career interruptions for child birth, carers’ responsibilities, misadventure, or debilitating illness will be taken into account." (and also telling people what the ARC is). I assume NHMRC has something similar. – Joel Aug 30 '16 at 06:47
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Also in this year's DECRA announcement: "A DECRA Candidate must at the closing time of submission of Proposals: have been awarded a PhD on or after 1 March 2010 or ...The ARC may grant an Eligibility Exemption for the DECRA Candidate who has been awarded a PhD on or after 1 March 2006, together with periods of significant career interruption... The following types of interruption will be considered... maternity or parental leave..." – Joel Aug 30 '16 at 07:30
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I was thinking that it was a shame that we hadn't had any comments from people who have included their child's name and birthdate in their CV, as it would be helpful to get their perspective in order to understand the 'motive' part of @pburg's question.
Today I came across this blog post written by Megan Rivers-Moore, Assistant Professor at Carleton University, Canada, who has included her children's names and birthdates in her tenure file (she doesn't specifically say CV). It's hard to distill the post down to a few words, but the gist seems to be that she considers her pregnancy and subsequent transition to parenthood important enough in her life to be relevant to those seeking to understand her as a professional.
While acknowledging that it is just one person's perspective, it is well worth a read, I think, as it gives some idea of her reasons for so doing.
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I don't think we should have an answer that points to any identifiable individual, especially in this context. – RoboKaren Aug 31 '16 at 18:00
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6@RoboKaren Why? While I'd agree it could be odd to link CVs that happen to mention this, I think the situation is quite different when the mentioned person decided to write and to publish a text on the very subject. – quid Aug 31 '16 at 18:15
Many European countries have strong law-bound parental leave benefits - also for the kids' fathers - it is likely there to provide explanation to future employers for past gaps of employment - or for parental leave.
And there is also a completely different mentality regarding these matters. Calling parenting an "excuse" for the presumed higher value of employment will definitely give some eyes on you so to speak.
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Here in the US, unless you're a politician running for office, this is not common and it's hard to imagine a worse idea for a professional woman's CV. It needlessly invites male stereotyping of women as unreliable workers because they leave their careers to have children.
From 'Motherhood Penalty' Can Affect Women Who Never Even Have a Child, NBC News, April 11, 2016:
In a 2013 study, Mary Ann Mason, professor and co-director of the Center for Economics & Family Security at the University of California Berkeley School of Law, revealed some alarming outcomes for women in academia: Women graduate students who are pregnant or mothers with young children are 132 percent more likely to be working in a contingent position, while men with a young child are 36 percent less likely to be in a contingent position. Contingent positions are non-tenured, adjunct, or temporary jobs that are not secure. ...
"Pregnant women and mothers are assumed to be less committed to their careers, and every time they leave the office or ask for any flexibility, that commitment is further called into question," Slaughter said.
"This kind of discrimination is institutionalized," said Lisa Maatz, a policy adviser with the American Association of University Women. "It's a part of the culture, it's a part of the decision-making process. Right now the assumptions about women's roles, as stereotypical as they may be, are driving decisions and those decisions disadvantage women."
In an earlier comment since moved to chat, I was asked to consider a hypothetical case, that "a woman 5 years past PhD applying for an academic position who reports having 2 children would have her output judged as if she were 2 years post PhD", possibly allowing her to qualify for a grant with a time-since-PhD cutoff. But putting this on a CV also reminds readers that she still has two children under 5 who will be competing for her attention for at least the next 13 years. In a situation like this, I would try hard to disclose this information in some way other than my CV, e.g., an email, a cover letter or explanatory note on your application that puts them on notice why you're disclosing this information and isn't likely to be circulated as widely.
The best strategy for professional women is a CV that minimizes any personal information that isn't directly supportive of why you're the best for the job you want. If you have a break because you had kids, especially here in the US, make them ask. You will both recall the exact moment they received information they cannot consider in a hiring decision.
From Pre-Employment Inquiries and Marital Status or Number of Children, US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission:
The following pre-employment inquiries may be regarded as evidence of intent to discriminate when asked in the pre-employment context:
Whether applicant is pregnant.
Marital status of applicant or whether applicant plans to marry.
Number and age of children or future child bearing plans.
Child care arrangements.
Employment status of spouse.
Name of spouse.
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Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. (Comments cannot be moved to chat twice on the same thread, so further comments posted here instead of in the linked chat room are subject to deletion instead.) – ff524 Aug 28 '16 at 19:04
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2I imagine myself among those who have some fractional understanding of bias about child-bearing, child-care, machismo, and misogyny, although being a cool ol' white guy I have (... sigh...) not experienced too many bad things myself. Perhaps the worst [sic] was being fairly athletic while claiming to be a mathematician, long ago. (Some kinda weird faint-praise thing, maybe.) But/and, yes, there is weird self-inconsistent stuff about being a parent in the U.S. The pretense is that it is acknowledged as "being ok" (whah? professionals oughtn't be parents?!?), but there is an equally obvious... – paul garrett Aug 28 '16 at 22:37
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2... "understanding" that "serious people" will not let "that kind of thing" "get in their way". (Oop, have I used up my quote allowance?) I've seen some tenure cases be denied (c. 1990) unreasonably due to sub-text about child-bearing ... Heaven forbid... "I'd never do that!" >:-( ... To my perception, the realpolitick in the U.S. is still "show no weakness" (perhaps even while pretending to...). In a lucky environment, some ("empowered") people may be around to mitigate things... but don't count on it. All very complicated. In fact, sooo complicated that I'd ask that anyone interested in ... – paul garrett Aug 28 '16 at 22:43
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... my considered opinion could email me at my easily publicly visible address. Send cookies, in any case. :) – paul garrett Aug 28 '16 at 22:44
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9I think you are being needlessly harsh on men. In my experience women can be just as prejudiced as men. Further, if there is a drop in productivity, better to explain it than make the search committee guess. – StrongBad Aug 29 '16 at 00:18
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10@StrongBad Unfortunately, across the course of my career, I have seen things that lead me to believe there's a much stronger gender bias than we might be comfortable with. Yes, women often participate as well, but men are more likely to be blind through our privilege. – jakebeal Aug 29 '16 at 00:43
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2@StrongBad: If the first sentence just said "stereotyping of women" instead of "male stereotyping of women" then it doesn't affect the conclusion, since for the purpose of this question prejudice from either has the same effect. The ERC rule cited in user60974's answer assumes that fathers are only distracted by a child to the extent of the leave they take, whereas mothers are distracted to 18 months even if they take less leave and even if the father of the same child is doing full-time childcare. Don't know who wrote the rule, but it's a judgement that mothers do all the work. – Steve Jessop Aug 29 '16 at 13:07
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2... so I don't think it's all that important to the answer whether the prejudice that the answerer has observed has primarily come from men or from women, but as it happens since she's calling it "male stereotyping" I suppose has come primarily from men. You can disbelieve that this is the strong tendency, it doesn't affect whether the advice given here is good or bad. What matters is whether the benefit of having the leave taken into account outweighs the disadvantage of stereotyping, and perhaps that is something that differs by country, if the legally-mandated accounting is very different. – Steve Jessop Aug 29 '16 at 13:15
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10"If you have a break because you had kids, especially here in the US, make them ask." I don't get that. How do you propose to make them ask? They just might not ask anything, and instead discard the application for an unexplained gap/lack of productivity. Is there something I am missing? Or is this intended as some king of gamble. If they happen to ask then they are trapped? (I apologize if this seems like a naive query, but I honestly do not get the intent.) – quid Aug 29 '16 at 20:21
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5@quid And thus, you may discover another of the nasty double-binds that professional women are often placed in. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. – jakebeal Aug 29 '16 at 20:23
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3@quid, if there's a recent unexplained break on your CV, trust me, they will ask. :) If they don't, they weren't interested and you weren't going to get the job anyway. – Nicole Hamilton Aug 29 '16 at 20:25
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4It also can look odd/sleazy to not give an explanation of why there was a break, however, @Noah_Snyder points out the way that negotiates between giving too much personal information (from US academic perspective) to giving enough information. Give the general outcome (parental break or parental leave or family leave or disability leave) not the personal details. – Carol Aug 29 '16 at 20:59
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2""if there's a recent unexplained break on your CV, trust me, they will ask." Do you have any experience with academic hiring committees? I have (second-hand) knowledge of a case where someone with a break was not shortlisted for an academic position, and someone without the break was when they were otherwise comparable. The break (and the fact that there was no explanation) was the reason." Also, grant reviewers don't have a mechanism to ask. If it's not in the application, it's not considered. – Joel Aug 30 '16 at 06:48
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2I know they do interviews like everyone else. That's what they did to me. – Nicole Hamilton Aug 30 '16 at 08:52
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The process to get an affiliate lectureship position at a non-PhD granting institution after already being involved in supervising a capstone project (and after a distinguished career in industry) is not subject to the same filtering process as a postdoc applying for a tenure-track position at a major research institution. It's a nasty catch-22, as @jakebeal pointed out. But it's not as simple as "they will ask" if they are interested. They are already discarding 90% of the applicants while shortlisting. Do you have experience with with this filtering process (or grant application process)? – Joel Aug 30 '16 at 09:23
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Joel, nobody does interview loops for an affiliate position so far as I know. Those are just put up for a quick faculty vote. To have had interviews, I must be talking about a full time academic position. – Nicole Hamilton Aug 30 '16 at 09:35
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15To arrogantly claim that specific group downvotes your post because they can't understand it's wisdom is a great way to harvest more downvotes... It also proves StrongBad's point: "In my experience women can be just as prejudiced as men." – Tomáš Zato Aug 30 '16 at 10:52
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4Time to trim that as it applied to early voting, before I'd fleshed it out and added the quotes to explain my advice. That said, I'm pretty sure that most workplace discrimination against women does indeed come from men. – Nicole Hamilton Aug 30 '16 at 12:12
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1Hah, just running through my list of things to downvote when I have enough reputation to downvote :) – Tomáš Zato Jan 12 '17 at 00:23
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1@Tomáš Zato That's fine Tomas, I keep a list of twits not worth paying attention to. – Nicole Hamilton Jan 12 '17 at 06:25
In Europe, it's normal. I included this information in both my (individual) grant applications. It's not an excuse though, it's an explanation: I stayed 2 years on maternity leave and I took care of my second son 24/24, so I was not working at all. Although my CV was considered outstanding by the grant reviewers, you cannot compare my productivity with that of someone who worked 2 years more than me, it would be utterly unfair.
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What information does this add beyond the seven answers already here from seven years ago? – Azor Ahai -him- Oct 21 '23 at 19:04
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@AzorAhai-him- For one, it seems that this poster is a mother who listed this info on her CV, so she brings a first hand perspective. Also, is there a convention (on stackexchange, or academia.SE specifically) against "duplicate" answers to the same question? I thought this is quite common. Besides, one can argue that it is useful to have a new answer simply because the other answers are seven years old and the situation might have changed. – Aqualone Oct 22 '23 at 10:31
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1@Aqualone "Also, is there a convention (on stackexchange, or academia.SE specifically) against "duplicate" answers to the same question?" yes? – Azor Ahai -him- Oct 22 '23 at 14:22
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It adds the perspective of a recent EU grantee, so that whoever reads this knows that it's a good thing to add maternity leave on the CV while applying to grants in the EU. – AkiPhD Oct 22 '23 at 20:11