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Suppose that our friends Alice and Bob are both academicians (academician: a member of the faculty of a college or university) in universities A and B respectively.

University A requires a lot of teaching and administrative work, whereas university B requires a certain amount of research and only a small amount of administrative stuff.

Alice enjoys research very much but she cannot spend enough time to conduct research and be productive in terms of publications. Bob, on the other hand conducts research since it is part of his job and does not really spend effort to improve his projects.

Let Charles be a member of the admission committee in university C that has an open PhD position. If both Alice and Bob applies to the position, he will see that Bob has been involved to more research projects than Alice, moreover, Alice has no publications and has spent her time on teaching.

The thing is, Alice does teaching really nice and gets positive feedback from both professors and students. It is clear that Alice can do her job above-the-average. Bob, on the other hand does not even need a feedback. He proved that he can do research by his projects and publications.

Suppose that both Alice and Bob are started working as faculty when they were master's students and now they are PhD students who want to find a position in a different university because of their own reasons.

Considering that both Alice and Bob are currently faculty members, Bob is one step further from Alice in terms of getting the PhD position, if not many steps.

What can Alice do to prove that she can be a way more better researcher given time and opportunity? Is there any "Charles" who is ready to give that chance?

If you are "Charles" (a member of an admission committee), would you give that chance to Alice? If you would, under what conditions?

ff524
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padawan
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    As far as I can understand the question, it is asking about the relative weight placed on research versus teaching for an academic job. Where in the world are you? In the US system it is well understood that this is a spectrum, and you must locate your approximate position on the spectrum in order to apply to the right kind of academic job. Elsewhere in the world the answers might be different. I have to say though that your question is worryingly obscure. In part you seem to be asking "How can I improve my research profile without doing any research?" Um...perhaps you can't. – Pete L. Clark Dec 27 '15 at 03:07
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    I've removed my comments about the previous version of the question, as it has now been clarified. However, I am still confused about why "academicians" are applying to a PhD position. What position do Alice and Bob currently hold? I think the answer to this question depends very much on that detail. – ff524 Dec 30 '15 at 21:26
  • The term "academician" is enough to make the question obscure. I am mostly familiar with this term from novels taking place in the Soviet world. Outside of this particular context, everyone I know says "academic". Moreover, by that one means a faculty position of some kind. (Sometimes graduate students refer to themselves as academics, and it is okay because we hear the silent "apprentice".) I still don't see what position Alice or Bob could have if they are doing research, teaching and administration and seeking to be admitted to a PhD program. I repeat: where in the world are you? – Pete L. Clark Dec 30 '15 at 21:35
  • @PeteL.Clark Most universities in Europe only offer PhD positions with scholarship and usually opens 1-2 positions per year. I probably could not understand your question about positions that Alice and Bob could have. Why wouldn't they have a PhD position? – padawan Dec 30 '15 at 21:42
  • "Most universities in Europe only offer PhD positions with scholarship and usually opens 1-2 positions per year." Most universities offer a lot more than 1-2 PhD positions per year. However this is a non sequitur to my questions. You say "Alice and Bob are academicians at a university" and that Alice has research, teaching and administrative obligations. Then you say they want to apply to a PhD program. So what position do they have now? (It may be that in your part of the world, "academician" is a specific academic position. If so, for the last time: please tell us where.) – Pete L. Clark Dec 30 '15 at 21:53
  • In Turkey, and as far as I know in EU and US too, master's students can work as a teaching assistant or research assistant. Different than most countries, a research assistant is usually hired for administrative duties in Turkey. I thought I made it clear that they still have a faculty position by using present tense. Sorry for not being so clear. – padawan Dec 30 '15 at 22:00
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    I appreciate your response, but I still don't understand the key point: you seem to be claiming that Alice and Bob are both master's students and faculty members. Maybe Turkish academic culture views them that way, but you should know that in most of the rest of the academic world that would be viewed as a contradictory statement. Moreover, if they are master's students, that's a key part of the question, whereas insisting on just saying that they're faculty members and then mentioning that they want to apply for PhDs is going to confuse most of your readers. – Pete L. Clark Dec 30 '15 at 22:05
  • Actually, that is usually the main motivation in Turkey for people to apply PhD positions in foreign countries.
    1. I know that I will be unoccupied after I finish my PhD if I stay here since none of the universities accept in-breeding
    2. More importantly, there are only a few opportunities to work as a researcher. People usually struggle with administrative duties even though they are academics.
    3. A personal reason, there are only a few of opportunities to earn my keep by conducting research in the field of theoretical computer science.
    – padawan Dec 30 '15 at 22:11
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    In this post you said that you're a PhD student, but here you say masters student. Which are they? Edit that information into the post. – ff524 Dec 30 '15 at 22:32
  • @ff524 I have specified their current situation. But out of curiosity, does it really matter if they are master's or PhD students? – padawan Dec 30 '15 at 22:37
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    @cagirici Yes, it definitely matters. As you have seen from the other post you just answered, people are somewhat wary of hiring current PhD students looking to transfer to another PhD, but not of masters students seeking to get admitted to a PhD program for the first time. Generally, transferring between PhD programs is not a "normal" academic pathway, but going from masters to PhD is. – ff524 Dec 30 '15 at 22:39
  • I've made an edit to the post which I think reflects your situation, please check and make sure I got it right. – ff524 Dec 30 '15 at 22:48
  • @ff524: Sorry to pick, but I don't understand your edited title either. How can the job of a PhD student be "mostly teaching"? Being a PhD student means that you are learning and then doing research to write a thesis. Many PhD programs have required teaching, but you can't stay in a PhD program no matter how good your teaching is unless your research is adequate...and you can't stay in a PhD program indefinitely because you have to complete enough research eventually. Perhaps you are getting paid for your teaching rather than your research, but that's not the same thing at all. – Pete L. Clark Dec 31 '15 at 04:20
  • The idea that someone who is in a PhD program never gets the opportunity to do enough research to demonstrate their research skills doesn't make sense to me....how do you graduate then? – Pete L. Clark Dec 31 '15 at 04:21
  • @Pete I don't fully understand the situation either. The closest analogy I can think of: there's an industry professor in my department whose job is mostly teaching. He's technically been a part-time PhD student in the department for a really long time now, but isn't progressing much; he's mainly teaching and also doing stuff in industry. I guess this is the kind of question he might write, if he were to decide to leave our department and start a "typical" PhD program? (The analogy isn't perfect, bec. this guy's teaching responsibilities have nothing to do with his role as a PhD student.) – ff524 Dec 31 '15 at 04:33
  • @ff524 I really understand you and Pete both being completely confused about the question. I think I should explain my problem in a different question. Briefly, I need to find a paid PhD position in Europe or US since I will not find a job here after I finish PhD. However, most of the universities require either publications or references from their own professors. I neither have publications or connections with the faculty members. I am afraid that I will be stuck in administrative/teaching side of the academia or will be forced to work in industry if I stay in Turkey. – padawan Jan 02 '16 at 20:53

3 Answers3

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"What can Alice do to prove that she can be a way more better researcher given time and opportunity? "

How do you know? From your description, Alice pines to do research but has absolutely nothing to prove that she is a better researcher. Teaching and research are entirely different skill sets; being good at one does not mean being good at the other! She has allowed herself to be stuck in a mainly teaching role, rather than a research focused role. Universities don't just want researchers, they want sharks; people that know exactly what they want and go after it. Alice making excuses will not make her appear to be a shark.

If Charles is interested in hiring a researcher, why would he ever choose someone who has, from your description, absolutely no experience in research versus Bob who presumably has a track record? That said, if Bob isn't a shark either but just kind of drifted from lab to lab and acquired the 15th name on a couple of papers along the way, I can guarantee that they aren't going to be too interested in Bob either.

If Alice wants to do research, then she needs to make some fundamental changes in her life. Her best bet is probably to carefully read her contract with regard to responsibility hours then go to her department and demand a change in her schedule to allow her greater time for research. Then she needs to buckle down and produce and publish.

Alternatively, she can try applying for places and say that she is looking to break away in order to do research, but again research is expensive and she will really need to sell whatever experience she has in order to convince them that they should take the risk on her.

I'm genuinely sorry to have to be blunt like this, but I see no other way. I think there should be far more appreciation for teaching oriented professors in a learning institution. Instead they get some lip service and little else. But you came here for truth, and this is the truth as I know it. Nobody will care about what Alice might do if they see absolutely no background that supports such assertions.

On a personal level as an example: when going for the NSF graduate fellowship, I didn't receive one even though the reviewers stated that the idea was great, the proposal well written, and the research seemed reasonable and doable, because I hadn't published enough papers. As an undergrad, I had published three. That wasn't enough though, apparently. Nonetheless, it hammers home the point that it didn't matter how bright I made the future sound given that my past wasn't up to snuff.

Broklynite
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On your last question: in the US, it depends very much on the institution. Research-heavy universities are going to pay attention to your publications and ignore your teaching. They will tell you that your teaching matters, but if you have good publications, nobody will care that you've never taught a class... whereas the best teaching evaluations won't help you get the position.

Once you start as a professor, your optimal strategy is to spend just enough time on teaching so that students won't complain to the department chair. There's a lot wrong with that, and if you enjoy teaching you may want to spend more time on it. But at the end of the day, you don't get non-renewed for poor teaching evaluations when you're a productive researcher, whereas the most glowing teaching evaluations won't help you get tenure if you don't meet the research requirements.

Teaching colleges care less about research and more about teaching, so there are places that value it. But these institutions, on the whole, are a lot less prestigious and pay substantially less. (There are exceptions, of course.)

I'll let others answer your question about PhD studentships, as I'm not familiar with that system. However, I do want to note that doing good research is often more about putting in the hours than being particularly brilliant. It seems to me that just about anyone in any field, after completing graduate coursework and reading 100 papers, can think of something that is new and interesting. It's finding the time to read those 100 papers (and to sit down and think about extensions) that is difficult. So your first goal should be to prioritize: less time on teaching, more time on research. Teaching can take up your entire day if you let it -- and it can be very rewarding. But if your goal is a research-oriented position, then you can't allow it to do so.

user2898391
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    "It seems to me that just about anyone in any field, after completing graduate coursework and reading 100 papers, can think of something that is new and interesting." I'm not convinced this is true in my field (math). Two provisos: (i) I mean that it is not automatically true. I think that most students who can be induced to complete a math PhD can also be induced to think of things which are new and interesting, but unfortunately the training for one does not necessarily encompass the other. (ii) Most math PhD students read a lot fewer than 100 papers. Some read 0 papers (unassisted). – Pete L. Clark Dec 27 '15 at 03:12
  • It seems that the question (now that it has been clarified) now asks about being hired to a PhD position, not a faculty position. – ff524 Dec 30 '15 at 21:29
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I think a lot of confusion in the question comments stems from Alice and Bob both being called "faculty" employed at universities while still looking for PhD positions. I am interpreting the situation as follows - if this is fundamentally incorrect tell me, and I will update or delete:

Both Alice and Bob currently hold a bachelor or master's degree only. Yet they are employed in some capacity by presumably lower-ranked universities. Their job title may be something like assistant professor and they are considered faculty with job security, but the job is essentially a permanent teaching / research assistant position. They currently are not PhD students or on any sort of track to a "better" position, so they are considering applying to a PhD programme in a different, presumably better university, likely in a country that it not familiar with their current situation.

(this understanding is based on a few incoming students from East Asia that were in similar situations before coming to our university - it used to confuse the heck out of us when they said that they were permanent faculty back home, but the key to understanding the situation is that in some weaker universities in Asia one can essentially be a permanent research or teaching assistant, which are officially called something like "pre-PhD professors")

With this understanding, I think @user2898391's answer is out of scope - it focuses on academics applying to faculty positions, not people that are currently on a faculty position of sorts which are now applying for PhD student positions.


After this lengthy introduction, my answer is to a large degree similar to the answer by @Broklynite.

What can Alice do to prove that she can be a way more better researcher given time and opportunity?

At the end of the day, Alice does not yet know that she will "be a way better researcher" than Bob. The fact that she gets great feedback on her teaching shows that she is good at teaching. It does not mean that she will certainly be a great researcher. As you say yourself, Alice is indeed one step farther "away" from a great research position than Bob simply by the fact that Bob already is on a research position (and, presumably, is currently learning the trade and improving, even if the position may not be optimal) while Alice in her current position is not.

Is there any "Charles" who is ready to give that chance?

I assume Alice's best bet is to apply to PhD student positions with a stronger teaching focus. For such a position, her current CV makes her a competitive candidate versus Bob. At least in central Europe, such positions do exist. I know that because I had a position like that for the better part of my studies. Another example is the web page of a former colleague of mine who is doing a PhD financed via a lot of semi-independent teaching (note the job title "University Assistant" - this is what this is called in Austria). However, there are two further challenges: (1) for such PhD student positions, strong knowledge of the local language is often required for undergrad teaching, and (2) those positions are not numerous and they are often not widely announced.

If you are "Charles" (a member of an admission committee), would you give that chance to Alice? If you would, under what conditions?

Only if I have a position that requires a lot of teaching. To be blunt, I see very little reason to hire Alice on a pure research position over Bob.

xLeitix
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