5

It is surprising to see from these sources (Wikipedia and University of Edinburgh) that the Master of Engineering (M.Eng.) degree is actually an undergraduate degree in the UK. It is recalled as an 'undergraduate masters degree'. While only PhD MSc and MPhil are considered to be postgraduate degrees.

How far is this true? Why is it so?

Ébe Isaac
  • 12,715
  • 2
  • 30
  • 73
  • Potentially a duplicate of: http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/10136/what-are-the-differences-between-m-sc-m-tech-and-m-eng/10141#10141 and http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/55736/uk-msc-vs-meng-when-applying-for-phd-and-chartered-engineer/55747#55747 – atom44 Oct 20 '15 at 10:31
  • 1
    @mg4w This seems to be a distinct question from the first, since it is asking specifically about the UK. The second question is a bit unfocussed, so I would suggest this isn't a duplicate of that one either. – MJeffryes Oct 20 '15 at 10:33

2 Answers2

12

It is considered an undergraduate degree because no degree is required in order to start the degree. Undergraduate masters degrees are increasingly common in the UK, due to the funding system. Postgraduate taught degrees are not currently eligible for government funding, so an integrated masters degree is often the cheapest route to a masters degree.

The integrated MEng degree developed early, since an accredited masters is a requirement to become a chartered engineer in the UK. Such courses, at least in theory, include the content of a bachelors degree, plus the content of a standalone postgraduate masters degree, often with an option to abandon early and receive a bachelor's degree. PhDs, MScs and MPhils almost invariably require a degree as an entry requirement, hence they are postgraduate degrees.

MJeffryes
  • 3,730
  • 1
  • 20
  • 30
  • 2
    A key point is that an M-something is a taught masters program, rather than a research one. It is refered to as an integrated masters, and the total work required is lower than doing two separate qualifications.

    The funding is probably the primary distinction though. An M-something is funded through the government student loan system, whereas currently there is no central funding for stand-alone masters programs (this is supposed to be changing soon).

     – Jessica B Oct 20 '15 at 11:10
  • 1
    Just to add to this, in the UK an MEng degree in an engineering discipline accredited by the relevant professional organisation meets the academic requirements for chartered engineer (C.Eng) status. An accredited BEng degree meets IEng requirements and a student who took that route would have to also obtain an accredited MSc award to meet the academic requirements for chartered engineer status. – John Oct 20 '15 at 11:22
  • @JessicaB Good points, but I think in theory the work load should be equivalent? I don't know that I've read any university that advertises it is less work even if it may in fact be the case. – MJeffryes Oct 20 '15 at 11:22
  • Standalone masters are normally 12 month courses (with no summer break) whereas integrated courses normally follow the normal 9 month academic year (Sept - June) so standalone courses can have slightly more content. Although this is a very minor difference and at least in the UK no one seems to care. Also from 2016 it should be possible to get funding fr a standalone masters http://www.findamasters.com/funding/guides/new-uk-postgraduate-loans-scheme.aspx – nivag Oct 20 '15 at 13:04
  • Fewer credits are required for the final year of the combined course than for a stand-alone masters, at least at my institution. But you only end up with one degree, rather than two. – Jessica B Oct 20 '15 at 13:24
  • Do MEng's still use the undergraduate degree classification system (first, upper and lower second etc.)? Is that another distinction (no pun intended) between that and a postgraduate Master's? – Michael Oct 20 '15 at 13:34
  • In the department i'm in they do use the undergraduate classificatoin system but the minium classification is (iirc) a 2-2. If you get less than that you fail the Meng year and get graded for a Beng based on your first three years. I don't know how standardised that is. – Peter Green Oct 20 '15 at 15:08
  • @JessicaB - not all M- courses are taught, for example the MPhil or the MRes – Nick Ayres Oct 20 '15 at 16:39
  • @JessicaB Do I understand correctly from your comment that even a stand-alone Master of Engineer (or Master of Science) degree in the U.K. is not research-based? – reirab Oct 20 '15 at 17:56
  • @NickAyres Sorry, I was forgetting that I know a distinction that others don't. There are some degrees that are postgraduate masters degrees (MSc, MPhil). MPhil is I believe always research. MSc can be by research alone, taught alone or mixed, and often this is made clear in brackets.

    Separately there're the taught undergraduate masters. MEng is a bit different because of the professional side, but there's MMath, MPhys, MChem, MCompSci... ie basically the name of the subject with an M in front. These will usually involve a dissertation-like project, but discovering something new's not a must.

     – Jessica B Oct 20 '15 at 18:51
5

It mostly boils down to how the University organises its degree program, you are correct on the definitions of the degrees. The undergraduate programs are for undergraduates, and will take typically 4 years to complete (equivalent of 3 years of normal undergraduate program, and 1 year for the masters component).

There is usually a mechanism for just doing a postgraduate masters similar to the masters part of the undergraduate program, where the title would be different as it was officially a different degree (postgraduate instead of undergraduate).

Having undergraduate masters programs help in the UK with applying for student finance, as "student loans" are readily accessible for undergraduates, but not for postgraduates. So it makes sense to do it all in one and get the undergraduate loans for the full masters program.

Some people suggest that a "proper" postgraduate masters is better than a program with an integrated masters for undergraduates, but in reality I haven't found anywhere that would discriminate between the two.

Matt
  • 81
  • 4