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I am a PhD student in Germany (physics) and I will have my PhD defense in some months. I am not German. My thesis is mainly based on two Physical Review Letters and a paper not yet published (submitted to Physical Review B). The reviews (Gutachten) on my thesis are positive: I've got 1.3 and 1.7 (1 is very good, 4 is sufficient). The defense will consist of an oral presentation of my thesis and of an oral exam (Rigorosum) in the presence of two professors (two main topics, one of which is completely unrelated to my thesis).

My question is, how important are the presentation, the rigorosum, and the reviews, respectively, for the decision of the final grade? Is it possible to fail the PhD defense, having good reviews? Actually, I am mainly concerned about nasty questions after the thesis presentation and during the Rigorosum...

Massimo Ortolano
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sintetico
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    What does your advisor say? – Bill Barth Aug 04 '15 at 17:45
  • my advisor is one of the reviewer. – sintetico Aug 04 '15 at 17:51
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    So? You can still ask them what the standards are. They must be able to point you to the requirements and tell you about the standards or rubric for scoring. This is precisely their job. – Bill Barth Aug 04 '15 at 17:57
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    As already hinted at in the comments, a lot of this depends on your faculty’s PhD regulations (Promotionsordnung), which vary a lot between universities. Anything that is not regulated there falls into the discretion of the referees (who may have some unwritten rules amongst them). Thus the only thing, we can give any useful answer to here is your last question, which was mainly addressed in this question. For everything else, look into the regulations or ask your supervisor. – Wrzlprmft Aug 05 '15 at 08:53
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    Have you had a look at the Prüfungsordnung/Promotionsordnung? It should all be nicely explained in those documents. – henning Jul 11 '21 at 19:08

1 Answers1

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To me it seems that your defense will decide whether you will get the grade 1.3 or 1.7. You will certainly not fail.

During my PhD it was roughly 2/3 the written thesis and 1/3 the defense, which is divided equally in your presentation and the rigorosum. However, for you I think this is not relevant since your Gutachten gave different grades and your performance will decide whether Gutachten 1 or 2 is "right".

If I were you I would take the defense seriously and be prepared for the topic the professors are going to ask you. Often professors give some hint on the topic or might even tell you in advance.

You should know that 1.7 will be rounded to 2, so I think it will be a "cum laude" vs. "magna cum laude". So it makes a difference.

To my knowledge virtually all grades are summa cum laude (1+) (approx 20%-30%), magna cum laude (1) and cum laude (2). So cum laude is practically the lowest grade, although it is a 2.

BTW: For the summa cum laude (the distinction) you need 1.0 in both Gutachten and also make an excellent presentation, where professors test you for your limits. Professors often use it to indicate that they think you are ready for the academic career. Also during selection of some programs of the DFG it is expected to have such a grade.

I hope this does answer your question.

Andreas H.
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  • does it make a difference if I tell you that the reviewer who gave me 1.7 is my supervisor? – sintetico Aug 04 '15 at 18:05
  • Hmm, I don't think so.I would have assumed that it is other way round. It is certainly not a disadvantage (perhaps a small advantage since some external person rated your work higher than the person who knows you better). – Andreas H. Aug 04 '15 at 18:10
  • BTW: who told you about the grades? Usually it is a semi-secret and my prof took it very seriously (but, the other reviewer told me...) . – Andreas H. Aug 04 '15 at 18:12
  • as you said, it is semi-secret – sintetico Aug 04 '15 at 18:15
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    The exact requirements for a summa cum laude vary between universities (although they are pretty similar), so the BTW may or may not be correct. Consult your local Promotionsordnung. – Stephan Kolassa Aug 04 '15 at 18:23
  • @AndreasH. But actually, what will be the difference between 1 and 2 grade? I mean, how it is important to have 1 instead of 2 in order to get, e.g., a postdoc position? Actually I think that the grade is secret, and I don't have to write it on my CV, if I don't want... – sintetico Aug 05 '15 at 20:12
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    @sintetico: That depends whether the postdoc is in Germany or elsewhere, the U.S. for example. In the US nobody will care since PhD theses are usually not graded and people typically do not understand the German system. In Germany this is most likely different. Also you cannot completely hide the grade, e.g. if you have to supply the PhD certificate or also people might just ask. – Andreas H. Aug 06 '15 at 17:17
  • @StephanKolassa: this is very true. However the numbers I quoted for the summa cum laude are the German average. But it is true that some Universities are very strict with summa cum laude that and some others not really. – Andreas H. Aug 06 '15 at 17:19
  • I hope anyway that a couple of good publications are more important than the grade itself. – sintetico Aug 06 '15 at 17:46
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    I would say so. However, since there is a grade in Germany it is never a disadvantage to have a good one. For the US is totally does not matter. But maybe in Germany things are also changing. In my home university there are no longer the grades written on the PhD certificate, it is either summa cum laude ("with distinction") or nothing, i.e. just pass. – Andreas H. Aug 06 '15 at 19:22
  • I would see if I can find some recent graduates who had one or more of the committee members in their committee and ask them what type of questions were asked. I would also study the CV of each member and read their last 2-3 papers in order to know what they are working on. At my defense one of the committee members asked if my system had ever found an error in a published proof. I had to say that it had - in one of his proofs. I still passed :) Don't worry about the grade. "rite" is perhaps not the best way to a professorship, but in many STEM fields the grade itself is irrelevant. – Debora Weber-Wulff Sep 04 '15 at 22:50