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Is there any technical as well as practical differences between the two academic positions, one being a permanent faculty position in the UK (or Australia/NZ and other similar systems) and the other being a tenured position in the US/Canadian universities? I believe most things may come down to the instances when they can be fired. While this question (Would tenured professors who are charged with a crime generally be fired?) addresses this aspect for the US/Canadian system, I don't know a comparison among different systems. Edit: My question is different than US statute of Higher Education System because that question refers to the authorities and rules in different countries that grant professorships. My question is regarding the actual (technical and practical) differences between 'permanent' and 'tenured' faculty members in different systems.

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John
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2 Answers2

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I think the most important difference relates to "redundancy" in terminations. In the UK, administration can decide to stop teaching a subject at a university, and faculty may become "redundant". There are various protections in the UK such as the need to try to find alternative employment for the staff member etc. but in the final analysis, if they want to stop teaching Vedic Epistemology, the Vedic Epistemologist could end up sacked. With a tenured position in the US, that would not be sufficient grounds for termination (following university rules that I am aware of -- rules are set by each institution, though there is considerable similarity). A correlated difference is that there is a huge tenure ordeal in the US (the "up or out" rule -- either you get tenure, or you get fired), which does not exist in the UK.

user6726
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    That sounds like a fairly rare example. What if you are teaching 'regular' courses such as calculus. Also how do you then define what courses 'you teach'. People may teach different courses in the same discipline. Or you are implying a case when a department itself is closed down? – John May 12 '15 at 02:50
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    @John There have been cases of departments being closed down, and people accordingly losing permanent positions. – Jessica B May 12 '15 at 05:09
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    I think the crucial distinction is that individual teaching areas can be deemed "redundant" in the UK, but with the rules prevalent in the US system, an entire department would have to be eliminated. Needless to say, hard statistics on sackings are difficult to come by. – user6726 May 12 '15 at 05:25
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    @Jessica B, do you have some specific examples? That's not a pleasant condition at all for anyone involved. However, I meant to ask if such closing down of traditional departments (e.g., mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc.) is possible. If there is a dept of Vedic Epistemology at a university and at some point the university decides to close it down, that may not be too shocking as opposed to closing down the traditional departments. – John May 12 '15 at 20:43
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    @user6726, how is 'redundancy' in such cases defined then? Is it the redundancy of an individual who could teach more than one subjects in principle, or the redundancy of a course? And can the redundancy be declared at 'will' by the senior authorities? Or some justifiable reasons, such as lack of students in the course or lack of finance, have to back it up? – John May 12 '15 at 20:46
  • @John, as I understand it "redundancy" means being dismissed fairly, and not for disciplinary reasons. I'm a little unclear on the special meanings of "redundant" in UK labor law. If you can teach calculus and Vedic epistemology and they decide to eliminate Vedic epistemology classes, they are supposed to offer you alternative employment in calculus. Redundancy can't be blatantly ad hominem, but as long as you get rid of all of the classes in Vedic epistemology, you can sack all of the Vedic epistemologists (there being only one, usually). They only need a feeling that they don't need area X. – user6726 May 12 '15 at 21:19
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    @John Mathematics, yes. Physics, I believe so, but it's not my field. I'm not sure I've heard of a chemistry department shutting, but I wouldn't be too surprised to find one or two had. – Jessica B May 13 '15 at 07:12
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    Mathematics department closed down? Was it due to financial difficulties of the university or just deliberately used this way to eliminate the unwanted members? – John May 14 '15 at 15:39
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    I don't understand user6726 and @Jessica. An academic is a person who does research and may also teach. If a university decides not to teach X, any reasonable academic can very easily simply teach Y. Hence, the closing of an area should be a decision based on closing the RESEARCH group in X, and NOT the need to stop teaching X. – Dilworth Jun 03 '15 at 16:11
  • @Dilworth, the problem is that that isn't the official policy in the UK (or US). Research is considered anciliary to teaching; though I'm sure that if the ministry felt that a particular research group was not needed, it too could get closed down. – user6726 Jun 03 '15 at 16:32
  • @Dilworth My answer is slightly different to user6726. In the cases I know, the research group and the teaching were closed down as a whole. Neither exists without the other, as both income streams are needed to support academics. While teaching might be redistributed (in the UK I believe they have to try at least), what you say is not true. I am a pure mathematician. If they don't teach maths, I cannot teach in another department - I am not qualified (ie do not have the knowledge necessary) to teach any other subject at degree level. – Jessica B Jun 03 '15 at 16:36
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    @Jessica B, so then to get rid of a pure mathematician, the management has to close down the whole mathematics department in that case? Any mathematician can teach at least the calculus courses, and as long as there is a mathematics department, calculus courses are going to be taught! – John Jun 07 '15 at 06:42
  • @John I'm not sure exactly. There's probably someone else who is already teaching the calculus. If the total quantity of teaching goes down, then there is a redundant position, just as in any other organisation. Basically in the UK there's nothing special about academia over other industries. – Jessica B Jun 07 '15 at 09:13
  • If a department were closed down (which has happened for large departments as well as small), then typically (wide variation possible) most of the 'permanent' staff would be redeployed somehow. Some might dislike all possible destinations, and resign, some might be 'redundant' in this sense and would lose their job. Losing a permanent job is therefore very unusual rather than (with tenure) nearly impossible, and will (typically) be collateral damage to a restructuring; it remains a very secure job (of course, with known psychos, the university might not try very hard with the redeployment) – Norman Gray Jun 03 '16 at 09:43
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Apart from the differences due to the educational systems (expectations for teaching, types of classes, recruiting grad students) and funding opportunities/expectations, one difference is that the UK system has finer gradiations of rank beyond the usual titles (Lecturer, Reader, Professor, etc.) whereas most US universities do not. This determines your pay grade and salary increases, which is fixed and not subject to negotiation like in most US universities. In terms of salary in US institutions, merit-based raises take the places of these promotions to higher pay grades, but these are much more fickle in general.

Kimball
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