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I am in the early stages of figuring out the steps I need to take to lay the foundations for a career in research (hopefully). At the moment I'm still investigating the options for an MSc, which allow for enough scope for eventual PhD. The reason I'm posting here is to find out more about specific aspects of academic life (in a general sense). I'm particularly interested in the amount of time that is spent on what would be considered 'the bureaucratic/ institutional politics/ interpersonal dynamics' side of things?

It seems like a lot of energy and time is expended on balancing ones work with having to navigate other variables, such as making the right connections, finding supervisors, and not stepping on the wrong toes.

From the perspective of academics who have worked the system, is this seen as 'paying your dues'? Or is it be considered to be a deterrent to certain students who might be gifted/ creative, with the potential for significant contributions in research?

Is there room for visionary/ idealistic type students to be able to learn the necessary academic rigors and discipline without hampering their unique ways of seeing? Can such students thrive if they end up pandering to egos or limited vision (if that is the case)?

This doesn't put me off, as this is one of the possible areas of research that interest me.

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    This depends so heavily on the country, field, uni, your ambitions etc. There is no "general sense". – kejtos Sep 22 '23 at 13:19
  • Not a direct answer to your question, but: Please do not be under the illusion that industry is really that different. The specifics differ, but human nature still provides political, bureaucratic, and necessary but uninteresting tasks along with "the good stuff." – Anonymous Sep 22 '23 at 23:34
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    Ph.D. students entering their studies seeing themselves as "visionaries" and worried about the "limited vision" of their potential advisers are, in my experience, quite commonly weeded out before or during their qualifying exams about 1-2 years in. You're entering a Ph.D. to learn, not to share wisdom. – gnometorule Sep 23 '23 at 02:47
  • The reason I posted was to find out more about how being a visionary type might fit. My way of thinking and processing is different as I'm neurodivergent. One such aspect is zooming out to see the big picture, but sometimes it's too big. I can focus when necessary, but I can overly focus too. My question was to find out more about the areas that might be problematic, I just didn't realise they were actually a neurodivergence issue. It's helpful for me to reflect on this more, so I can 'root out' the institutions who claim to be 'inclusive' and 'diverse', but they aren't really. –  Sep 23 '23 at 07:32
  • To reply to 'anonymous', I'm not sure how it was implied I had a rosy idealized view or interest in industry? If anything, I'm overly cautious about the serious decisions I make and it usually dispels any illusory notions. With respect, your comment seemed to be based on your own assumptions but they were not applicable in my case. Whilst I appreciate input that's actually related to what I was asking, there's not much value or substance to your comment. –  Sep 23 '23 at 08:35

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I think you are asking several different but related questions. It also sounds like there is a specific situation you want to ask about... But in general, I would say academia is like most other professions - I don't think it's any better or worse than other career paths in the senses you mention.

Like with all professions, interpersonal dynamics are crucial, though arguably it matters more for some fields and at some places more than others. For example, you really need reasonable interpersonal skills if you want to run a lab or research group properly - but you would need it even if you were more of traditional solo humanities scholar who always publishes alone, since you need to work with your colleagues to agree on teaching and governance as well as with non-academic staff for administration of the department, managing grants, organising conferences, etc. Like with every profession, some people are better at this than others: so many young scholars leave academia because of awful senior people who are just bad managers, bullies, or only interested in growing their own power, but there have recently been high-profile cases (in the UK) where the bullies have faced consequences so there may be hope yet. The general rule of 'be a good person' should be followed.

You can't escape bureaucracy - but that's true of all professions really.

It seems like a lot of energy and time is expended on balancing ones work with having to navigate other variables, such as making the right connections, finding supervisors, and not stepping on the wrong toes.

I would consider finding the right connections and supervisors/collaborators a part of work, not something to be balanced against it. Like in most professions, networking is important. Stepping on the wrong toes is bad, but you can't control other people's reactions, so if you follow the general rule of 'be a good person', you should be fine.

From the perspective of academics who have worked the system, is this seen as 'paying your dues'? Or is it be considered to be a deterrent to certain students who might be gifted/ creative, with the potential for significant contributions in research?

None of this should be 'paying your dues' - you will have to do admin, work with people, and manage relationships throughout your career (as in most careers). It can be annoying, and I personally find networking very hard, but it shouldn't be a deterrent as you'd have to deal with this whatever you do. Amazing research - even of the most world-changing kind - will rarely get you out of these duties/responsibilities.

Is there room for visionary/ idealistic type students to be able to learn the necessary academic rigors and discipline without hampering their unique ways of seeing? Can such students thrive if they end up pandering to egos or limited vision (if that is the case)?

Noone wants to make you a worse scholar - the only way your vision gets limited is if you let it by, as you say, pandering to others who don't have your best interests at heart. But why would you pander? At your stage, the most important thing is to find a good supervisor and a good department: ask the current graduate students what the atmosphere is like in their department (they are often very frank). Like when you search for a job in any profession, you need to do your research about the company/department you join. And if you hear bad things, avoid that department. Sometimes, bad things happen, but overly egotistical colleagues are not the norm and interpersonal disasters are not the default situation in academia.

I get the sense you are talking about internal politics. This, I avoid like the plague, because it has the potential to take over your life. But sometimes internal battles have to be fought, if it's over the direction of your field or over moral issues like creating a safe and inclusive learning environment. The key is not to let disagreement over a single issue spill over into other areas of interactions with your colleagues. Some colleagues are better at this than others, but again this is not unique to academia and this should be discoverable from asking around. (Also, drama tends to find people who like drama.) Finally, you will usually escape most of this as a graduate student, especially a masters student - they are rarely involved in internal politics. As a PhD student, you will be exposed to it a bit more, but you will usually be on the sidelines of internal politics unless you make yourself (or are made) a pawn - but most departments are sane enough to leave students out of any mess. Choose a sane supervisor and sane department by asking around before applying to ensure your chances of encountering trouble like this is minimised.

Academia can be a lovely place. In a well-functioning department, your life could be amazing. In a dysfunctional department, your life could be hell. I have been in both. In my corner of academia, to judge from discussions with colleagues, the two are just as common as each other. I wouldn't be put off by this (I would put more weight on job prospects in general and levels of pay), but just go in without rose-tinted glasses (which you clearly don't have).

emmam
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  • This is exactly what I was looking for when I posted, thank you! Sometimes I find communication difficult, but I appreciate your understanding of what I was trying to ask (in a convoluted way). –  Sep 22 '23 at 15:10
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There are all sorts of institutions and all sorts of situations. I've worked for some literally crazy people (committed to institutions crazy) and some evil ones. But there was enough good in the jobs I had that my experience, measured over a career, was net positive.

Most jobs have three types of expectations/requirements: Research, Teaching, and Service. The balance between them depends on the institution and also the career point you occupy. Service is usually something like 10% of the job and it can be service within the institution (committees and such) or outside (community stuff). At a research institution, research is usually about 60-70% of the job with the rest teaching, either large low-level courses or upper level and graduate courses. At a teaching institution, the expectations of teaching make up that 60-70% with research covering the rest. Teaching institutions normally expect close and friendly interactions with students. Research institutions may expect the same with grad students.

Pure research with no other obligations is pretty rare in academia itself, less so in some (government) funded laboratories. Some superstars can make this work in academia, but it is rare. Graduate student advisement is probably the minimum needed, but a job with only that sort of expectation, beyond research, is, again, pretty rare.

As for academic freedom, it is usually pretty secure, even with a crazy (or evil) department chair. This may not be the same in some countries, of course. In some places, tenure is pretty sacrosanct with attacks on it garnering wide condemnation both inside and outside the institution. There are instances of some fairly racist people being protected by tenure. I've known some oddballs, too.

Politics, however, can be a negative factor with faculty factions constantly bickering with one another. Early career people are cautioned against joining in on this.

Yes, there is room for excellence, even when there are negative factors. You don't need to be "plain vanilla" to succeed. Having commitment to the job is needed and usually rewarded. I think the same must be true outside academia as well. Having a bad boss ain't fun. Tenure helps.

Another aspect you mention, however, is also important. You need to build up a circle of collaborators over time. People who have similar interests, either in teaching or research (or both). People you can share ideas with, possibly leading to combined research. People you can talk to at conferences. For a doctoral student it is useful especially to try to get connected to the circle of your advisor. It is useful to keep in contact with trusted professors, not just advisors.

If you are extraordinarily introverted it is worth learning how to overcome the tendency to keep to yourself. Learn to speak in public, for example and to share ideas. Some people need professional help to accomplish this, but most early career people need practice, at least.

Buffy
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  • Thanks for such a thoughtful and detailed comment. It's really useful and I appreciate you taking the time to share your practical insights. Especially your observations about how to overcome introversion. –  Sep 22 '23 at 15:02
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Bottom line: even in the academia, there is a reward for people doing good work.

All the other things you mention ('the bureaucratic/ institutional politics/ interpersonal dynamics') are just on the background and mostly out of your control.

You face them if they intrude in your life, otherwise you can stay out of them and ignore them and do your own good work (please note: this is exactly the reasons why abuses and discriminations happen on a daily basis even in academy where most of the people strive to be the visionary/idealistic student you depict)

The visionary/ idealistic type students do not exist. Academics are adult people living their life in this world. Pretending something different or a special treatment of academics is detrimental to them and to the world (see my parenthesis here above).

Minor addendum: "there is a reward for people doing good work." the reward is proportional to the situation, you can be as skilled as a Nobel prize and your work as good as Nobel prize work ... and your reward will be proportional to the Nobel prize of your situation.

EarlGrey
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  • "The visionary/ idealistic type students do not exist." Actually, I think the OP was referring to themself. – Buffy Sep 22 '23 at 13:27
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    @Buffy someone thinking of themselves as a visionary/idealistic student has an ego as big as the big-ego people of the today academia creating all the bureaucratic/ institutional politics/ interpersonal dynamics mess that OP wants to avoid. Nothing wrong with having a big ego and knowing it, but it is important to realize that there are multipe forms to have a big ego. Deserving of being outside social dynamics is one of them. – EarlGrey Sep 22 '23 at 13:33
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    Hmmm, as I usually tell people, "I'm not perfect, just the best." ;-) – Buffy Sep 22 '23 at 13:42
  • I'm sorry if I came across as arrogant, it was not my intention. This was something that I was aware of when I posted, but it's difficult to avoid sounding pompous when using terms such as 'visionary' and 'idealistic'. Just to clarify my meaning, I was referring to myself but not as positive attributes. I'm neurodivergent and my mind works in it's own peculiar way. Although it's useful for coming up with ideas, seeing patterns and being highly focused, I have to be mindful of my big picture ways. Being idealistic is part of my nature, but its often seen as unrealistic (understandably). –  Sep 22 '23 at 15:51
  • @NedtheStaffie having a big ego is not necessarily negative. But one needs to be aware of it. One thing is idealistic "I strive to do the best possible thing", another is idealistic in the sense "if everyone else do like I think...". The distance between the two seems enormous, but in reality is almost zero. If you are an idealistic visionary, striving to do the best thing possible, being a professor and having people working for your goals, how do you manage them? You will for sure note to yourself they have limited time with you ... so you squeeze them, for the benefit of everyone! – EarlGrey Sep 22 '23 at 16:05