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In Australia, academic ranks for a balanced position is usually broken down into 5 pay-scales (A Associate lecturer, B Lecturer, C Senior Lecturer, D Associate Professor, and E Professor), which somehow shows the level of seniority as well as the leadership responsibilities. There might be a few exceptions to this.

I noticed some Australian Level C academics translate their title to a North American Associate Professor title. This is really confusing to me as there is already a more senior Australian title with the same name. The assertion made here is that an Australian level D is similar to a full professorship in a North American country while an Australian level E is similar to a titled Professor in a North American country. I don't understand that as there are already many titled professors, senior professors and distinguished professors in Australia.

What is a correct comparison between the academic ranks in Australia and the North American countries? Is making a comparison even correct?

Maarten Buis
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  • "Associate Professor" seems to me to be a problematic title (e.g. what are you merely "associated" with rather than a part of?). I don't they do equate at least between the UK and US, partly because the age/experience profile of the "corresponding" grades are different in the UK and US (c.f. https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/172797/how-are-older-associate-professors-viewed-in-academia-in-the-usa-and-elsewhere ). In the U.K. senior lecturers and readers are both being relabelled as associate professors. I agree that "politically correct" (like "woke") suggests polarisation. – Dikran Marsupial May 08 '22 at 11:26
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    I suggest you edit this question so it does not solicit opinions about correctness. – Anonymous Physicist May 08 '22 at 15:27
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    By "North America" here it seems that you really mean "US and Canada"? Mexico's system of academic ranks appears to be rather different, and I think the other Central American countries are too. – Nate Eldredge May 08 '22 at 15:37
  • The name or title of a position is often confusing when comparing countries. The value/rank/prestige of a position is determined by it's place in a system not its label. So it is perfectly normal for positions with the same name to be different and positions with different names to be the same when comparing countries. – Maarten Buis May 08 '22 at 15:39
  • The real difference between ranks is "Non-tenure temporary, non-tenure with a possibility for tenure - tenure - Professor - distinguished Professor. There are analogs of that in academias of all countries (sometimes there are several versions of each rank in different countries) and different tracks too, Say, in France they have CNRS. – markvs May 08 '22 at 16:12
  • @markvs that is not the case in the U.K. we don't have tenure, but posts do have a probationary period for early career faculty (typically three years, but can be concluded early if a high level of competence is demonstrated). However, when you pass probation, you are still on the lowest "lecturer" pay scale and promotion to senior lecturer typically happens rather later. There are also fixed term senior lecturer posts now and then. – Dikran Marsupial May 08 '22 at 16:58
  • @DikranMarsupial: I know all that. Some steps can be omitted. In the UK many things depend on the University too. TThe Oxford system is different from Southampton or from Sussex I know this because I wrote supporting letters for their promotional cases..But the principle is the same, I think. – markvs May 08 '22 at 18:09
  • @DikranMarsupial: I think in the UK you do have tenure. You do not have "tenure track"? – markvs May 11 '22 at 00:50
  • @markvs no, we have permanent posts with a probationary period for new faculty members, but it is very rare for faculty not to pass probation (normally three years, but you can pass earlier if things are going well). AIUI there are also employment law issues that mean people who have been in post a long time via a series of fixed-term contracts have some additional protection, but I don't know the details. In the UK you can be made redundant through no fault of your own IIRC (but it would be rare) – Dikran Marsupial May 11 '22 at 08:35
  • AIUI, a permanent/indefinite contract just means that funds are allocated for your post indefinitely in the institutions financial planning, it doesn't mean you have a job for life. However, I am not a HR specialist, and there is bound to be someone here able to give a more reliable view. – Dikran Marsupial May 11 '22 at 08:48
  • @DikranMarsupial: I know all that. Still your positions correspond to "Non-tenure track", "tenure track", "tenure". "associate professor", "full professor", I did not name these, because the names are different in different countries. There are also major differences with Germany, Austria and France. But the essence is the same. I am not a HR person either, but I have written many promotional letters. – markvs May 11 '22 at 12:15
  • @markvs, no, they don't equate because there is no "tenure track" AFAICS the difference is whether your post has an indefinite budget, not that you will always be the holder of it. There is a linear "seniority" ordering, but it is just the labels that can be equated, not what those labels actually mean. – Dikran Marsupial May 11 '22 at 12:21
  • They do not equate, but each of your positions corresponds to one of ours. Even "professor with no salary increase". – markvs May 11 '22 at 12:37

1 Answers1

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These kinds of comparisons are always imperfect. What does 'equivalent' really mean here? It's not even clear within a country: is a Full Professor at MIT 'equivalent' to a Full Professor at Compass Point State College (Satellite Campus)?

I am not sure that the boundaries between US ranks map exactly onto any of the boundaries between Australian levels. As a rough guide, I would suggest:

  • US Postdoc = Australia A/B
  • US Asst. Prof. = Australia B/C
  • US Assoc. Prof. = Australia C/D
  • US Full Prof. = Australia D/E
  • US named chair = Australia E/E+

I think this matches both the typical level of responsibility, and the typical 'academic age' (i.e. years post-PhD) of candidates.

Australian academia grew from the historical British model, where there were comparatively few Professors and the title was indeed a mark of significant distinction. In recent years both countries have gradually moved towards a (perceived) parity with the US system, with promotion to Professor becoming increasingly 'normal' for those who survive long enough. This evolution may well be the source of some of the confusion over how titles map between countries.

avid
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    This isn't completely accurate because promotion to Full Professor is, at many US universities, almost certain to occur. At Australian universities, it is normal to get stuck at Level D. – Anonymous Physicist May 08 '22 at 15:29
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    The UK system hasn't moved to [perceived] parity with the US system, we have just adopted the labels. Promotion to full professor is substantially more difficult than it was when I became a lecturer in the mid 1990s (IMHO). – Dikran Marsupial May 08 '22 at 15:32
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    @AnonymousPhysicist: that’s exactly why Full Professor maps to D/E rather than just E or just D. – Noah Snyder May 08 '22 at 18:04
  • @AnonymousPhysicist: It is far from certain in my University. A really complicated process (till recently) with an uncertain result. I was the Chair of the promotional committee several times. – markvs May 11 '22 at 11:18
  • @NoahSnyder: There are just very few "full professors" at Oxford math. Each one of them had been promoted individually with different method. There are several type of Professors. For example, in one of the letters I received, I found :"We are promoting X to professor without increasing salary, please write a supporting letter." I did not write "please, increase her salary" or "she should be fine with her salary". – markvs May 11 '22 at 11:26
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    @markvs: this is a question about comparing Australia to North America. Literally nothing to do with Oxford. – Noah Snyder May 11 '22 at 14:04
  • @NoahSnyder: Australia copied the UK. There are no Oxbridge in Australia, but they have Sydney, Melbourne, Monash, Canberra which are similar to Southampton, Warrick and so on. I only wrote letters to Monash, so I do not know about others. But I expect something similar. The UK was brought up by somebody in the comments. – markvs May 11 '22 at 16:39