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One of my professors has been in the IT development fields for over 40 years. He thinks he is up-to-date with all the latest research and technology. But I believe he's not.

The problem is - he hates when a student (like me) dares to point out his mistakes or flaws in reasoning. Or when a student suggests a better (modern) solution to a problem.

How to deal with such a situation - should I keep challenging him or keep quiet until the end of semester? I don't want to lose grades (he's been known to give lower grades to students who asked him too many questions he wasn't able to properly answer).

David Ketcheson
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user10815
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    Perhaps your professor is not against you pointing out his mistakes, but is against you pointing out his mistakes in public. He might take it as a sign of disrespect. You might want to communicate with him in private so that he doesn't lose face. (Although I personally have no problem with students pointing out my mistakes in public; in fact, I encourage them to do so.) – JRN Jan 15 '14 at 05:26
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    Usually I don't care about examples, but this question would be far more interesting with examples. As a matter of fact, I have hear about something similar wrt a boss being wrong and the employee telling the story is who was actually wrong... – Trylks Jan 15 '14 at 10:59
  • What is the whole point, when you know you are at the losing end ? – BeyondProgrammer Jan 15 '14 at 11:06
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    its simple, never argue with a professor . Especially when you know he's grouchy and your future is at his stake. –  Jan 15 '14 at 10:45
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    Don't challenge the person -- that is confrontational, and generally will not lead to a productive outcome. If you believe there is a more "modern"/better alternative, then you could just ask about it in a way that lets him do his job -- instruct with what he knows. But be careful, you might just get tasked with "Please research a qualitative comparison of the two solutions, and come prepared to present to the class at the next meeting". – railsdog Jan 15 '14 at 13:16
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    A lot of professors are annoyed by different perspectives not because they don't appreciate them in general but that they have an agenda to get through in class. You might find if you talk to him outside of class, he is different because he is not on the clock. – Wakem Jan 15 '14 at 15:17
  • The type you represent is one I hate most during a class. And I guess I'm not the only one. (As others said, you could always try to talk with him after the class is over. If he does not care or just not open to your opinion, leave him be.) – Apache Jan 15 '14 at 16:37
  • Two factors that have not yet been addressed by any of the answers to this question: (1) A professor may give 'glib' answers that are technically not 'correct' from an in-depth perspective, because they intentionally want to keep things simple for undergraduates. (2) The best time to challenge the views of an individual professor is when you yourself are a professor and your challenge is i)rigorous; ii)well substantiated; and iii)unambiguous. There is a hierarchy within academia that pretty much guarantees that your views will carry little to no credibility until you complete your credentials. – dreftymac Jan 15 '14 at 17:09
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    @shwetaG: never argue with a professor — This is one of the few times I wish I could down-vote comments; like many other professors, I actually prefer students to tell me when I screw up. – JeffE Jan 15 '14 at 18:52
  • @JeffE: It's not a problem for a student to question a professor. However, it is a problem if a discussion becomes a heated argument or a fight. – aeismail Jan 15 '14 at 20:23
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    Show a bit of humility in your approach and consider the possibility and perhaps probability that he or she is right in the light of longer experience in the field. By all means ask why and explain your reasoning, but do it tactfully. – Robert Jones Jan 15 '14 at 21:15
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    You're asking for advice on how to handle a situation without stating what your goal is. Is your goal to change the professor's behaviour? Convince him you're right? Graduate on time? Don't make us guess what your goal is; if you want advice on how to achieve a goal, state the goal. – Eric Lippert Jan 15 '14 at 22:03
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    When I was still in school, and I found mistakes in assignments/tests/exams, I would do it with the mistake in place, then do it again with the correction but as a separate answer (box it or something). Also I tend to ignore minor mistakes profs make during class, but if they do make bigger ones, I wouldn't go "Sir you're wrong..." I would try to make it look like I'm asking a question and he will figure it out... If it's a matter of opinion (which seems to be the case for you), the prof is always right :P – Populus Jan 15 '14 at 22:33
  • I can share an experience from college. I went to a school of natural resources. My environmental issues class teacher thought I/we were crazy when I pointed out we should use hemp fibers to make paper and other material. I pointed out that his own teachings said to be open to new ideas. This was back in the early 90's. That same semester Job Strobel, a tobacco farmer in Southern Ontario, was granted one of the first licenses to grow hemp for fiber. We plastered my teachers door with the news article. He apologized for calling us crazy next class. :) Depends on how you approach it i suppose. – danagerous Jan 16 '14 at 00:55
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    It depends. When I was undergrad, I greatly appreciated the professors that could admit when they were wrong (since everyone, sooner or later, is). "Is that 2+2 really 5?" would suffice for them. But I also had one prof that I used to argue with mercilessly, because he was utterly unqualified for the subject, and spreading a bunch of factual misinformation. Example interaction: "That theorem seems wrong. If you substitute 0 for that x, you're getting 1=2." - "The theorem must be correct, the book says so." I had background in the subject, and considered it a duty to other students who did not. – Amadan Jan 16 '14 at 01:32
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    Then again, it was not in US, I had a considerable reputation with the other faculty, and he knew he could not take revenge upon my grades without risking to expose his own deficiency as a professor. In general, though, a competent professor can always fail you legitimately (by posing a question he knows you can't answer), so being confrontational is not usually a good idea. He was not a competent professor, and I couldn't work up any degree of respect for him, so confrontation it was. After a while, the class thanked me, recognising that they were learning more from me than from him. – Amadan Jan 16 '14 at 01:38
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    In my experience, grade paranoia is usually misplaced. As long as you remain civil and are right, there is no issue. But then, that's in CS in Germany; I've been told that student-professor dynamics are entirely different in other fields and even worse in other cultures (e.g. India). – Raphael Jan 16 '14 at 08:40
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    I love it how almost everybody here, and especially @JeffE, think that because they have the right attitude and a well-functioning environment, it's the same for everybody. Some of us come from countries with not-best educational system. We can't get out (cost, family values, cost), and we have to finish because that's the best there is and the only thing we can do to help our future. I saw an old, outdated professor getting all the funding over younger, eager, good professors, just because the the old important people with money still remembered the old professor from old times. – penelope Jan 16 '14 at 09:25
  • @penelope: There's always a way to deal with these situations. If you're afraid of a direct challenge, phrase it as a question. "Why is it X? Can't we do Y instead?" or so on. – aeismail Jan 16 '14 at 11:10
  • @penelope I can tell you that it's like there EVERYWHERE. Except for geniuses, who would still need some luck finding a good mentor to bring him/her up, seniority plays a big role. Recent generations (including mine) have been brought up to think that being right is the most important thing, I would like to disagree (so does this guy: http://www.ted.com/talks/ric_elias.html). Regarding your example of older prof getting funding, maybe younger people should consider building their own network of friends in order to surpass their predecessors? Yes the old prof had to work to make connections too – Populus Jan 16 '14 at 15:26
  • @Populus And building new connections would be grand if there would actually exist a wide-spread practice of funding from external (e.g. non-government) sources. It would work if the funding committees were not made of same, inert people as years ago, who still remember a name from years ago. If the uni was not pressed to state an old name or risk their finances. Mind you, he's getting by nicely these last few years, but with very "modern" and unconventional funding schemes. I'm not saying he'll not make a name for himself in time, but it will take a (very) long time due to system inertia. – penelope Jan 16 '14 at 15:37
  • Not enough points to answer, but after years of questioning profs I developed a technique: "So, it seems to me like we could use x for this. Would that functionally be the same? Could it be better? Would it be worse?"

    From that, there are four basic answers he can give: "Yes", "No", "I'll get back to you on that", or "This is not relevant." If you feel he does not give a sufficient answer when saying "No," discuss it with him in private.

    As far as grades are concerned, you are in college. You can appeal always appeal to a higher power if you think you are being mistreated.

     – MirroredFate Jan 17 '14 at 01:12
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    One more thing: always ask your question from the position that you are wrong, you just don't know why yet. This will save you a lot of pain when you are wrong, and it forces you to keep an open mind. If you start with the assumption you are right, it is far harder to understand the explanation as to why your way might not be best. – MirroredFate Jan 17 '14 at 01:15
  • I can tell you from personal experience it's probably best not to argue. I had an almost identical issue my senior year in college. I was given advice by my grandmother in that she said, "he (the professor / head of IT) is so tenure in his ways and beliefs, you are not going to change him, so don't bother." This is probably true in your case as well. There are always forums like this one to 'debate'; doing so with a professor may not have a favorable outcome. – atconway Jan 17 '14 at 16:29
  • @penelope while I agree with you that there are some real problems wih cliques in academia I find your initial comment needlessly confrontational (in particular, your digs about age and 'family values'). I should also point out that shwetaG is the one who made a blanket statement which contradicts the statements of a significant number of people (see for example here: http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/14291/how-should-students-react-to-inaccuracies-in-professors-teaching-without-causin/14292#14292). – Aru Ray Jan 18 '14 at 03:18
  • It seems to me that both of you are assuming that because you have the wrong attitude and/or a poorly functioning environment everybody else must as well. The evidence rather suggests that professors who accept students who question them are not uncommon (of course, I accept that such folks are probably over represented on this site). Some anecdata: I have found such (excellent) teachers IRL both as a student in India and in the US. – Aru Ray Jan 18 '14 at 03:19
  • You are probably suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. It's okay, many students suffer from it. – doug65536 Jan 18 '14 at 12:05
  • When teaching a subject matter that involves critical thinking and logical reasoning, a good teacher can lead her students to a problem, explain it and equip them with all necessary facts and logical tools to solve the problem themselves. Consider this when talking about these issues with your instructor. – RLH Jan 20 '14 at 17:53
  • Constantly. I always had to listen to my statistics advisors tell me that I am afraid your genetics (main) advisor does not have that much experience in modeling. But the problem was that I wanted to tell them that I can model better than you! –  Jul 22 '17 at 00:21

9 Answers9

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Short answer: Probably not.

As you pointed out, you may lose out on grades by challenging this professor. A larger problem, in my opinion, is when you (the student) approach the class with an attitude of discovering the professor's many mistakes. With this attitude, you also lose out on the opportunity to learn from his expertise. While this particular professor may not be as modern as you would like, it does not mean you cannot learn from him!

Keep quiet until the end of the semester, except when you have a valid question. And don't approach intending to prove him wrong; approach intending to find out how you can learn from what he knows. Ask questions because you want to learn, not because you want to prove the professor wrong. If you believe you know a better solution, it might be appropriate to ask "Would this solution also work? If not, why not?" Ask, don't tell. Your professor is human too, and most of us have a hard time always responding graciously to a smarty-pants student who thinks they know more than we do!

J. Zimmerman
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  • I guess you're right; it's not worth trying to prove your point because no matter what (I should assume) a professor wants me to succeed. – user10815 Jan 15 '14 at 05:07
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    The professor probably doesn't give a damn about your grades. They're your grades and he has other students that, if you start messing up their grades, will be a different story. If you think he's wrong then there's no need to wait but "Ask, don't tell" is a good policy to follow up after the lecture/lesson (an email with references to books or good sources and ask why he disagrees with that source.) – James Snell Jan 15 '14 at 13:56
  • It worth 100 upvotes. Great. – Mahmood Dehghan Jan 15 '14 at 17:34
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    Furthermore, assume you are right. Then what's the big deal? Just sit there and be right. – Jonathan E. Landrum Jan 15 '14 at 22:12
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    @JonathanLandrum: The big deal is, all the other students are learning wrong. In some situations, "Sit there and be right" is safe, but selfish and unethical choice. (I wrote a specific example of this in the question comments.) – Amadan Jan 16 '14 at 01:40
  • @JonathanLandrum that defeats the purpose of education. – user13107 Jan 16 '14 at 02:07
  • @Amadan I think those occasions are few. I mean, if the instructor is writing "2 + 2 = apple" on the board, by all means, interject. But it could just be a case of the student not actually understanding the subject fully. Or it could be the instructor wants to teach it this way first, and then show the "correct" way next. I can think of numerous examples of this in Chemistry, where students are first taught about double bonds, for example, and later taught that there is really no such thing as a double bond. – Jonathan E. Landrum Jan 16 '14 at 02:09
  • @user13107 see my previous comment. – Jonathan E. Landrum Jan 16 '14 at 02:09
  • @JonathanLandrum you raise an interesting point about teaching the wrong way first. – user13107 Jan 16 '14 at 02:37
  • +1 @Amadan same reason I point out mistakes in material. – Secret Jan 16 '14 at 10:45
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    @JonathanLandrum I had the opportunity to be seated on third-world schools and unfortunately lot of what is taught are SIMPLY wrong, perhaps partly due to brain drain -> therefore lack of good professors :( – Secret Jan 16 '14 at 10:52
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Have you ever seen a skit on The Chapelle Show called, "When keeping it real goes wrong"?

Trust me when I tell you that every class in every semester has a student that thinks he or she knows it all.

It can be hard to stand in front of a class and have all the answers. Sometimes when I've stood up there and say something, I've felt rushed to give an answer so I don't look stupid, and it just came out all wrong so I looked (or felt) even more stupid. Then I just walk around for two days realizing how stupid I am.

Even the best professors can be wrong, but the better ones will at least correct themselves in the next class or send out an email explaining something further.

The best way to handle the professor isn't necessarily to try and show them up in class, but to either go to office hours and ask for clarification. If you still think they are wrong, explain where you found the answer and show them.

If its worth the time to engage them at all, then that can be best way to do it. If they don't respond well in that situation, then its not worth your time and you should just keep quiet and focus on your grade.

Believe me, as an undergraduate I've battled many worthless TAs only to have the head of their department say that they have to back up the TA because that's just how its done.

When I got to graduate school, it was a different ballgame and I really put a professor through the ringer with the department when she tried to give me a bad grade because she was incompetent. But when I did that, I slowly went up the chain, documented every conversation and interaction, highlighted the syllabus, noted changes she made mid-semester to the syllabus, and then made a formal complaint. In turn, the professor was reprimanded by both the head of faculty and head of graduate studies, and my grade was fixed. But that was a serious slog to get through.

Twitch
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Here in the United States, critical thinking is one of the core values of our higher education system. This is a social and institutional value that is opposite to the values seen in many other cultures, where the professor is always right, even when s/he is wrong. A competent college professor in the US should always welcome skeptical comments from students. The word "skeptic" itself comes simply from the Greek verb "to think." If you're not being skeptical, you're not thinking.

Of course, these values are not universal. For example, the educational system in India is infamous for teaching by rote memorization and discouraging critical thinking.

As a professor, I've often made mistakes in class and been very grateful to students who corrected them. I often joke to my students that if I inadvertently wrote 2+2=5 on the board, I worry that they would come up to me after class and ask, "Professor, you wrote 2+2=5 on the board. I always thought it was 4, but is 5 the answer you want us to give on the test?"

You should not refrain from asking questions in class because of any fear that it will confuse other students or make the professor fall behind and not have time to finish the lecture. Mistakes are very confusing to other students until they're corrected, and the reason you have a textbook is so that you have a source of information for any topics that there wasn't enough time to cover in class.

Of course you should exercise normal tact, consideration, and humility. The goal is not to fight a battle with your teacher, it's to help yourself and everyone else in the class understand the subject correctly. There's the joke that at the age of 20, I knew everything, but now that I'm older I know a lot less. In computer science, there are basic principles that don't change much over time (a quick sort scales better than a bubble sort), but there's a lot of other random junk that amounts to styles and fads (choices of particular computer languages). Don't fall into the trap of thinking that there's something wrong with your professor just because he doesn't emphasize the flavor of the week.

he's been known to give lower grades to students who asked him too many questions he wasn't able to properly answer

It's hard for me to imagine how you would know this. It's not as though you have access to records of what these other students' grades were on every assignment and a side-by-side comparison with what the grades would have been if they hadn't asked questions. It seems just as likely that these students had overblown opinions of their own abilities and therefore felt their grades were unfair.

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    'the educational system in India is infamous for teaching by rote memorization and discouraging critical thinking' [citation needed] – user13107 Jan 16 '14 at 02:10
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    I like this answer best and want to add one thing: don't go ad hominem. Instead "I think you are wrong" say "I don't understand how X is consistent with Y." Professors do assume that they are correct -- otherwise they can not teach with any confidence -- so you have to get them thinking. Cases a) They agree there is an issue and adapt their stance. b) It was a misunderstanding and you both learn from the question. c) You did not understand and learn from the answer. (I was, arguably, a fairly competent student and asked many questions in and outside class. a) occurred the least often.) – Raphael Jan 16 '14 at 08:48
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    Also, this is one reason to love hard/mathematical science. If you have actual proof the prof is wrong, there's little they can do. Happened to me one time, even though it took them a couple of days to digest (they were quite brash at first). They approached me then and said I was right, technically, but the underlying problem was still a misunderstanding (he used one definition, I another). – Raphael Jan 16 '14 at 08:52
  • 'the educational system in India is infamous for teaching by rote memorization and discouraging critical thinking'

    With (ongoing) experience of it as a student first hand, I somewhat agree with that being the case uptil 10th grade. After that though it takes a turn for the better and actually encourages innovative thinking for difficult problems.

     – shortstheory Apr 23 '14 at 17:18
  • @Raphael Are you saying I'm wrong? – Simon Kuang Jul 15 '14 at 06:29
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Never challenge a lecturer. Ask. If it's something that isn't directly related to PRECISELY the point they're currently teaching, ask during office hours rather than in front of the whole class.

Praise in public, criticize in private -- and criticize by asking "would this have been another answer, and if so why is the one you showed us better", rather than by acccusing.

Quoting Dean Inge: "There are two kinds of fool. One says 'This is old, and therefore good.' The other says 'This is new, and therefore better.'" Before demonstrating yourself to be the latter type, politely make sure you understand what was actually being taught and why. You may have completely missed the point he was making.

(Note that this is just as true when working with a boss, or even when you're the boss. Start with a discussion rather than assuming one or the other side is inherently true and that there must be a winner or loser. In the end, the boss does have the final say, because they have to consider more than just the technical merits of that one point, but you're a lot more likely to have a pleasant and productive experience if you try to work with people rather than against them.)

One more thought: "who thinks he's always right" is more of a comment about your attitude than about that of the instructor. Of COURSE he thinks what he's teaching is correct, or he wouldn't be teaching it. That doesn't mean he can't be wrong, but it does mean you need to respectfully justify your objection if you want it (and yourself) to be taken seriously. And unless the error is a simple typo/"thinko", that's likely to take more time than should be sliced out of most lectures. Talk to him afterward. He can always announce a correction at the next lecture if you convince him that one is needed. And if you can't convince him, ask yourself why not rather than assuming he's just being an ass.

keshlam
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    Praise in public, criticize in private. Praise versus criticism isn't the issue. If the professor made an outright mistake, then it's important to correct the mistake immediately, during class, so that the whole class doesn't get confused. This isn't a criticism of the instructor. Everybody makes mistakes, even highly competent people. –  Jan 15 '14 at 22:10
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    IF it's an outright mistake, certainly. But that isn't how the question was phrased. And even then, it should be phrased as a question, because the odds are at least as great that the error is the student's rather than the instructors. Hopefully more so, if the instructor is at all competent. – keshlam Jan 15 '14 at 22:17
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    When facts clash, I assume one of the following is true: a) I am wrong, let me learn why; b) The other is wrong, let me confirm that; c) There is a misunderstanding, let's clarify. It is not about winning or losing; it is about detecting which of these is true, and what insight one can achieve in cases a and c (or learning what one can safely ignore, in case b). – Amadan Jan 16 '14 at 01:46
  • Right. But "challenge" is the wrong word for any of those. Challenge is explicitly confrontational, especially given the characterization of the professor stated at the beginning. I say again: Don't challenge. *ASK*. It accomplishes all the same (legitimate) goals without pitching an emotional grenade into the conversation. And unless you think he has MISSPOKEN, and the accurate statement is life-and-health critical, take it offline rather than disrupting the whole classroom and the whole flow of his presentation. Grant him the dignity of letting him (appear to) correct himself, if needed. – keshlam Jan 16 '14 at 02:00
  • I agree with "don't challenge, ask" thing. About disruption, I'll often factor in the size of the class - I'd have no compunction in speaking in a class of 10, but I'd only react to big things in class of 200. However, "dignity"... screw dignity. Nobody is infallible, and people who try to appear infallible instantly lose my respect. I'm fully with @BenCrowell: letting falsehoods and errors slide is a bigger obstacle to education than a quick "Shouldn't that be a 4? - Oh, right you are!". – Amadan Jan 16 '14 at 02:25
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    "Shouldn't that be a 4" -- Certainly; if it's a typo, it should be corrected immediately. "Shouldn't you use an entirely different approach" -- take arguments over the content of the class offline UNLESS it is very specifically being run in seminar/socratic mode -- in which case the instructor will generally have said right up front that he welcomes questions even if they diverge from the lesson plan. If you have to ask the question, you know the answer. – keshlam Jan 16 '14 at 02:34
  • @keshlam: Okay, a non-typo example (~1990, high school): "Output peripherals include card punchers, printers, plotters... Monitors? I guess, but that's a passing fad. They're useless, you have to copy everything by hand before it disappears. That won't last long before people realise how stupid it is to pay all that money just to have to use their pen again. Don't bother with monitors in the test." (much more relevant to OP's question, I suppose, than the maths example) – Amadan Jan 17 '14 at 00:23
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    One can always find exceptions; there are bad instructors out there. However, those few individuals are incurable, and interrupting the class to argue with them is more likely to prevent anyone learning what they can teach than to improve overall learning. If you can't work with the teacher rather than against them, drop the class and tell the department head why, and let them try to find a better instructor. Don't try to take over teaching the class; that isn't your role or your responsibility or something you can actually do effectively from a student's seat. – keshlam Jan 17 '14 at 00:32
  • ... He's entitled to his stupid opinion, the whole class already knows it's a stupid opinion, and from the student's point of view all that's immediately important is that that his opinion will not be on the test. – keshlam Jan 17 '14 at 00:33
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Let me put it like this, he is the teacher and you are the student. Ask yourself if the things he is wrong about, are really worth mentioning. If not, then it is probably best you keep quiet, and don't compromise your grades. There are always going to be people like him. If you keep trying to challenge him, you may very well become a 'right' fighter yourself, like him.

Donna
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    ...and as a student, it is your job to challenge every aspect of the material presented, rather than taking your professor's word for everything. – JeffE Jan 15 '14 at 18:55
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    In class is not necessarily the right time or place to challenge the professor, though. This is especially true if doing so will confuse other students further. – Rob Volgman Jan 15 '14 at 20:37
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    @RobVolgman Sometimes this is the case, but I find it is more often the case that the professor getting it wrong is confusing. People are left trying to work out how something works when it doesn't. – Nico Burns Jan 16 '14 at 00:24
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It depends on whether this teacher is dangerously wrong or not.

If his teaching the wrong things to everyone then he needs to be challenged. Challenging him in class won't help. Talk to him in his comfort zone and find out what you can. If he is genuinely a bad teacher, you need to find your campus support network and work out how to escalate the problem.

But in this case it sounds like he is a good teacher, trying to get through a lesson as others have said, but not necessarily completely up-to-date or good at putting down smart-arses.

In this case, learn what you can, he might have old ideas that are really great! When you can teach his class, critique it.

Julian
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Consider the situation as something like you're going to paint an abstract image - you're free to sketch whatever you can imagine but there has to be a meaning or purpose for what you're doing. The point is this: your professor is probably unaware of what you consider as "flaw" in dealing with his students, as such, serving as his "shadow" could make him realize such thing. But if he is aware, then the problem is not to think about the ways to harmoniously deal with him; rather, you should adjust with the kind of classroom atmosphere that he wants.

It's indeed "abstract" because no one else really knows the best way to have the kind of learning environment or teacher that you want other than you...

Alexander F.
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This depends a lot on the country and university specifics. However during my studies once happened for me to observe students replacing professor they deemed it is not competent enough for the particular course.

The student group should apply to university management asking to replace the teacher as not good enough. Of course, such application must list multiple factual errors in presented material, uncovered topics that you consider important for the subject, examples of undelivered information that you think would be highly relevant to the given lecture and the like. Significant number of students should apply so it would be difficult just to represent this as a personal conflict.

If the teaching person is not a head of laboratory / department but instead is under supervision of another competent professor, you may also talk to his supervisor. Some universities concentrate on research so deeply that teaching may be delegated to somebody more junior and less experienced.

If you cannot find enough arguments or supporters for this procedure, the professor is actually competent ...

algorithmic_fungus
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It's his job to instill to his students he knows everything so they will listen and follow him. All you would be doing is damaging what he is trying to build with his students.

It won't go well for you, nor offer you anything positive in the course and most likely harm your grades. If you know more then most, then instead of using it to attack your teacher, do something that will equally give you what I believe you do want from the teacher -- "His respect, & knowing you are very knowledgeable" -- by offering assistance to other students who do need help.

This way you get to show your intelligence in the field, your teacher will love the help in class with most teachers already being spread thin, and he will most likely shine on your grades better. Even if "YOU" do make a mistake, because of the effort at assisting others, he may overlook it when grading.

jcmeloni
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chuckctv
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