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I am being considered for a very nice industry scientist position but this involves many interviews and assessments and can take some time.

However I have also accepted an invitation to the US (I'm in Australia) to give a presentation in relation to high likelihood of employment as a postdoc in a research institute.

The postdoc supervisor has arranged for sightseeing and lab visits and hotels. I feel bad if somehow I wish to pursue the industry position.

Has anyone had a similar experience and have you turned down something like that before?

The Vee
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FrostedCentral
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    What would you do if you would interview at two places and both PIs pay for your expenses? – Hatschu Mar 11 '19 at 16:27
  • "Has anyone had a similar experience" is somewhat vague question, and makes it opinion-based. perhaps, you should remove it from the Q, leaving just "can you reject..." – aaaaa says reinstate Monica Mar 11 '19 at 17:23
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    I really hope this is acceptable, because I did exactly this a couple of years ago (being paid for flying from the US to Europe, and later offered a position that I eventually rejected). No one seemed to be annoyed with me at the time. :) – Denis Nardin Mar 11 '19 at 17:27
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    The PI arranges for sightseeing and lab visits and hotels either because they think that's the polite and normal thing to do when offering a job, which puts you under no obligation, or to increase the likelihood of you accepting, i.e. by betting on exactly that sense of obligation, which at least I personally would consider a bit of manipulation. Nothing to be offended about, perhaps, but certainly enough to void any sense of obligation I would have. The result is the same in both cases. – sgf Mar 11 '19 at 18:40
  • Thanks for all the responses but I was thinking of long term repercussions...would this affect my reputation and chances for collabs in the future?? Since academia tends to attract a certain kind of crazy. – FrostedCentral Mar 12 '19 at 07:07
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    The answer to questions of the type "Can one do X?" tends to be a straightforward yes. What you (and many other posters) are asking is "What are the consequences of doing X?" I wish that was said more clearly in the title of these questions to stick to the actual issue. – user2705196 Mar 12 '19 at 12:35
  • All is fair in love, war and jobhunting until you have a contract in hand. – Mast Mar 12 '19 at 14:46
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    Don't forget that the interview process is two-way. The institution wants to see if you are a good fit for them. You need to find out if the institution is right for you. I've been involved in faculty hires. Sometimes the person you want turns you down. We held no ill feelings toward these folks and moved on. The institutions you are interacting with will do the same, I would imagine. – Chris Leary Mar 12 '19 at 23:28

6 Answers6

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It sounds like you are in the interview phase with no stated commitment in the form of having accepted an offer. Having your travel expenses reimbursed for an interview is not in any way a commitment to accept a position should it be offered. This is a completely normal expense that's part of finding good candidates. It is not expected that everyone they offer a job to will accept.

As long as you approach the interview in good faith, meaning that you haven't already accepted a job elsewhere, and that there is some reasonable non-zero probability that you'd take the job if offered, you shouldn't feel bad about having your interview expenses covered because of the possibility you might not wind up there.

Nuclear Hoagie
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    +1. I'll note also, that the funds aren't coming from the PI personally, but from some funding s/he has. That is their responsibility to manage, not yours. But congratulations that they are showing strong interest in you. – Buffy Mar 11 '19 at 14:41
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    +1 This is the right answer. However, given the large expense to fly you in, please be sure that there's a reasonable chance (not just nonzero) that you might take this job. And yes, congratulations. – Ethan Bolker Mar 11 '19 at 14:46
  • It's great luck to have both a good and even-better job on your plate. What if you saw the just-good position first? You might not know until you did all the visits and interviews. Maybe even now you'll still be surprised and this second one of yours is even better once you have that in-person experience. – Mike M Mar 11 '19 at 23:58
  • I feel like this answer misunderstands the question. The way I read it, the OP has accepted an invitation to go to the US and give a presentation. Things have been booked and money spent (by the postdoc supervisor). The OP has now been offered a job, and in order to pursue the job must back out of giving the presentation in the US, which means the postdoc supervisor will have spent all that money (on flights, accommodation, sightseeing, etc.) for nothing. Am I wrong that this answer doesn't actually answer the question? – Clonkex Mar 12 '19 at 05:35
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    Having your travel expenses reimbursed for an interview is not in any way a commitment to accept a position should it be offered. That is not universally true. When I applied for a post-doc in England, I was told that expenses are not refunded in a case where an appointment is offered and then refused. For this reason, I opted for a Skype interview instead. – gerrit Mar 12 '19 at 08:44
  • @Clonkex The OP may have been offered a job, but it's clear they haven't formally committed to anyone. There is no shame in interviewing for a job if you have another offer, so long as you haven't committed yet. The postdoc supervisor hasn't spent money for nothing, they have spent it for the opportunity to woo the OP into accepting their offer. If the OP had already accepted the industry job, then yes, the supervisor would indeed be paying for a candidate they have no hope of hiring, but that's not the case here. The OP may still wind up as a postdoc. – Nuclear Hoagie Mar 13 '19 at 00:34
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    @gerrit That's an interesting and extremely unusual situation that I, nor anyone else who answered that question, have ever seen before. It seems like the the rational strategy is to decide partway through the interview if you'd accept a job if offered, and if there's a reasonable chance you wouldn't, to tank the rest of the interview to ensure you don't get offered the job. – Nuclear Hoagie Mar 13 '19 at 00:41
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    @NuclearWang The way I read it, the postdoc isn't hiring anyone. They asked the OP if the OP wanted to give a presentation (not get a job), the OP said yes, THEN the postdoc supervisor spent the money ONLY BECAUSE the OP said yes. Now if the OP backs out the postdoc supervisor will have wasted that money and may not be able to get it back. I see no other way to interpret the question so it baffles me that so many people are upvoting your answer. – Clonkex Mar 13 '19 at 02:04
  • @NuclearWang alternatively I as the employer acting in bad faith having decided that you are not a good fit have decided to make you an offer of minimum wage and nothing beyond what is required by law. I hope you will reject so that I do not have to pay your travel expenses. But if you are smart you will accept and then no show so that I must fire you. – emory Mar 13 '19 at 03:07
  • @NuclearWang My situation was that I was applying with two different places, and the one who had this unusual policy was my second choice (because the other place I applied for was a permanent position). I did end up at the second choice place and later learned that the PI was not even aware that HR (which sent the formal job interview letter) had this policy. – gerrit Mar 13 '19 at 09:05
  • @Clonkex The OP is clearly expecting an offer of a postdoc position (it's literally in the question title). If the postdoc supervisor isn't hiring, why would they care at all if the OP took the industry job, and why would the OP need to back out of the presentation if they did? The question in no way suggests that the OP would book the trip and not go - they are worried about rejecting a postdoc job offer, not about canceling their already-paid visit. Seems like most others agree with this interpretation. – Nuclear Hoagie Mar 13 '19 at 15:08
  • @EthanBolker Given that it will all depend on the offers, one can not predict the odds of accepting/rejecting anything. The US one might offer 10x the salary of the other, or it might offer a 10th. So I would say there's no such thing as a 0 chance of taking an offer; and it's worth going to both so that you can get the best offers you can. – UKMonkey Mar 14 '19 at 10:44
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In addition to the other good answers given here, I think it's also important to understand that what feels like a large sum to a graduate student is often not a large sum for the interviewing organization.

Australia's a bit on the farther side, but a quick bit of searching shows that a ticket is still likely to only be on the order of $1000 US; hotel accommodations and meals will likely bring the total only up to around $2000 US.

In contrast, if you're there for a two-year postdoc, the total cost will likely be on the order of $200,000, when you count in all of the benefits and overhead.

Spending a couple percent on investment to make sure you have a good match is entirely reasonable, as long as everybody involved is being honest about intentions and not wasting anybody's time.

jakebeal
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If your date pays for dinner are you obliged to go home with them? Of course not! Same in this instance - you are under no obligation to accept, but as the prevoius poster says it's only good manners to go only if you are seriously considering the role, were you to be offered it.

Good luck with the whole process and hope you find a position you're really excited about one way or another!

JRM
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    This analogy is not appropriate for the workplace, which includes this site. – Reid Mar 11 '19 at 21:34
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    @Reid: I don't see how it's not appropriate. It's comparing power dynamics and how spending money on interest in someone doesn't place some obligation on them, and is a pretty good analogy. – R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE Mar 11 '19 at 23:50
  • @Reid This is a perfectly reasonable analogy, why do you think it's inappropriate? – Chris Cirefice Mar 12 '19 at 14:14
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    It's about sex, which is not an appropriate workplace topic. Don't be lazy; there are plenty of power dynamics analogies that do not involve sex. – Reid Mar 12 '19 at 23:17
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    Independently of whether this answer is appropriate, it seems unrelated. Why should I believe that dating mechanics and job search mechanics are the same at all? When I am being considered for a job, shall I offer my interviewer a job just because going dutch is all the rage on dates these days? – Daniel Wagner Mar 13 '19 at 01:39
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    I don't think the sex part is inherently inappropriate, but having someone pay significant money for you to have interview if you're certain you're not going to take the job is not okay. Going on a date with no intention whatsoever of having sex after is perfectly fine, even if your date pays for dinner. It's just not a good analogy. – tomasz Mar 13 '19 at 13:11
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I feel bad if somehow I wish to pursue the industry position

Yes, I have experienced such feelings. Don't worry too much about it. Job application and interviewing is just that: process. You spent your time flying, making presentation, they spent some amount of money because they are interested. There is no obligation or expectation that you'll say yes just because they organized your visit.

Also, they probably have institution account that pays for flying candidates, or grant funds potion that is dedicated for travel. Don't feel like you are cheating anyone if you are just exploring your options.

aaaaa says reinstate Monica
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After Skype interviews we brought the top two candidates over from another continent for face-to-face interviews, tours etc. It's part of the recruitment process to get people on site and spend some time with them, though of course sometimes the money just isn't available.

Chris H
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When I had something similar, my rejected host took it rather unkindly. However, it works both ways, what if the only compensation for a rejection from them would be the "tour" they paid for? In most cases I would not consider it enough compensation, what kind of jobseeker can go on tours when "the house is burning", meaning those few days you take off other interviews, applications etc may be a hefty price to pay. Sure, only occasionally, but your host would also suffer from the hosting expenses only occasionally.

Anastasios Tsiolakidis
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