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I am about to complete a Ph.D. in Hong Kong and would like to study in the United States. I hold a first class B.Eng. degree in Electrical Engineering. I have a CGPA of 3.67 out of 4 in my current PhD studies, two journal publications (IEEE Transactions) with two more to be submitted soon. I would consider this a fairly good academic record.

For career purposes, I would like to obtain a Ph.D. degree (in a different but related field) from a top American university. There aren't post-doc openings in my current research area, which is why I am considering another PhD in a related area.

Question: Is it considered illegal to not mention that I hold a Ph.D. (hopefully) during application? I noticed some schools frown at what some would call a "professional" or "serial" student.

NB: I have read responses on this question and I am satisfied with them. But I feel there's need to make my question clearer for those who did not understand. Some universities clearly state on their websites that they will not consider applicants who already hold a Ph.D. while some others do not specify this. My question was more for the latter. But now I know that other than dealing with the university, it will require lying on visa application, as some people wrote below.

Thank you all for your contributions.

Rodrigo de Azevedo
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BoltzBooz
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  • Usually I would assume that it is ok to get a second PhD in a different field (I think some scholars might require you to get a waiver from the dean, or something like that). – The Guy Feb 28 '18 at 04:00
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    @TheGuy: We've had questions about this before. There are certainly schools where the default rule is "not allowed". Like most rules it can theoretically be waived by authority of a sufficiently high official, but in many cases it seems clear that such waivers are deeply unlikely to be given, short of the most exceptional circumstances. – Nate Eldredge Feb 28 '18 at 04:42
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    When you say "legally", do you mean according to the rules of the university you'd be applying to, or according to the laws of the US and the state in which that university is located? As far as I know, it may be the case that what you're asking about is forbidden by university rules but is not against the laws of the land. (But I don't know whether that is the case.) – David Z Feb 28 '18 at 07:58
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    @DavidZ By legally, I mean by state and/or federal laws. – BoltzBooz Feb 28 '18 at 08:04
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    @Boltzmann That would be very important to include in the question, then, because I'm not sure if people posting answers will realize that otherwise. – David Z Feb 28 '18 at 08:49
  • ask your potential supervisor directly, he might be admired to the idea that you already have some good publication and you may boost his publication records... who knows – Krebto Feb 28 '18 at 14:48
  • In Germany you could do as many PhDs as you want. There would be no reason to hide that fact. –  Feb 28 '18 at 15:17
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    What do you plan to say you were doing for those years you were working on the first one, publishing papers and establishing your scientific record? – WBT Feb 28 '18 at 16:39
  • Maybe you can ask the university to void your diploma for you if you would want to. Or is it like a criminal record that you can't get rid of even if you want to? – mathreadler Feb 28 '18 at 18:54
  • As Far as I know, and I am opposite of you on the other side, Hong Kong has putting on freeze after defending the thesis. and you can do it for 3 years. I dont understand why you dont use this??? you can add in CV that you are still student – SSimon Mar 01 '18 at 15:57
  • This seems a lot simpler than everyone is making it out to be. Ultimately, a college is a business and you are its client. Together, you will execute a contract involving the exchange of tuition for learning and a piece of paper that certifies that learning. If the contract requires disclosure of academic records (e.g. an explicit request on the admission form), and you deny that request in whole or in part, then it would seem to me that you would be engaging in fraud. – Aiken Drum Mar 02 '18 at 09:57
  • I don't think two PhDs makes you a serial student, either. Just a motivated researcher with unfinished business. If you're still racking up letters ten years from now, then you get the serial student label. – corsiKa Mar 02 '18 at 16:37
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    For what it's worth, I imagine that no one in federal or state lawmaking cares if you omit information on school or job applications (people omit things from their resumes all the time). Laws concerning that are much more likely to be contract law/protection for the university/company, e.g., if they find out you omitted important info and decide to revoke any offer or acceptance, that's a legal move (some people may see that as some kind of discrimination, possibly). Anyways, all hypothetical – galois Mar 02 '18 at 18:05
  • Also, it could be worth pointing out that holding a PhD already could be beneficial - it shows you have been through the process, know the "game" a bit, and generally could show you'll be a better student and easier to deal with since you're more likely to have dealt with the odd politics that come with the PhD process. – galois Mar 02 '18 at 18:07
  • @galois not if the intent of the positions demanding to not have a PhD is precisely to attract fresh people who don't know the game yet ;) Maybe they simply want young people who are easy to shape where they want to get them. – mathreadler Mar 04 '18 at 07:31
  • @mathreadler sure, but if that's the case, it's probably not the best environment for OP anyways – galois Mar 05 '18 at 14:14
  • @galois Maybe. But it depends on what motivates OP to work and learn. Such things can be very individual. – mathreadler Mar 05 '18 at 16:40

5 Answers5

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No. You cannot hide such a fact in US admissions processes. Lying about your previous academic record—whether by omission or by claiming false credentials—is sufficient reason to revoke an offer of admission if it is caught before the applicant matriculates, or grounds to expel a student if caught after enrollment. Depending on the magnitude of the fraud, you may even be asked to pay restitution for the funds spent.

As far as if it’s illegal, that’s a trickier issue. It basically comes down to money: if you received funding based on a misrepresentation or fraudulent application, then it’s far more likely that you’ll face civil or criminal penalties.

aeismail
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    Thank you for your response. It is really appreciated. If I may ask, do you have any idea why this rule is in place? – BoltzBooz Feb 28 '18 at 07:55
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    Could you clarify why not fulfilling the admission process makes it illegal? I always assumed that these two things are not directly related, but maybe in US they are the same. – Jorge Leitao Feb 28 '18 at 07:58
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    @Boltzmann are you asking why lying has consequences when caught or why some universities don't like multiple PhDs? The former seems self evident. The latter is probably because a PhD is seen as vocational training for researchers (they wouldn't put it that way, but that is what it is). If you have one PhD then you should have a sufficient understanding of that process, so an additional PhD has little added value, and from a society point of view you get a bigger payoff by training a new PhD. – Maarten Buis Feb 28 '18 at 08:18
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    Would that also cover "lying by omission"? It is clear that claiming that you have a degree when you don't is an obvious offense. Not providing one you have (because, for instance, it is not relevant in your opinion) is different. Except if the form requires you to list all your degrees. – WoJ Feb 28 '18 at 09:03
  • I've seen people with PhDs in US. I'm not sure how the admission in US works, but if you can convince a professor you can do postdoc work for student money, the chances are high to get the offer. –  Feb 28 '18 at 09:09
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    @Magicsowon actually that should trigger some kind of equality protection measure and not be that easy. In other words, it's unfair and unfair is bad. – DonQuiKong Feb 28 '18 at 11:03
  • @MaartenBuis, My second question was on the latter. I only just wanted to understand the reason behind not considering a PhD for admission because here in Hong Kong, professors would gladly take up someone with advance research experience for publication purposes. I have already known the implications of that from previous responses. – BoltzBooz Feb 28 '18 at 12:01
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    @JorgeLeitão The short answer is that receiving money on false pretenses may be fraud. Whether it actually is or not, only a lawyer could advise, but it very often is. – RBarryYoung Feb 28 '18 at 17:26
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    @Boltzmann: In part, it's because people might otherwise try to hide, for instance, poor performance in a previous program. They want to admit who they feel are the people who will benefit most (and benefit the faculty most) from the program. – aeismail Feb 28 '18 at 22:29
  • I suggest you choose a second field that is not too close to the first. // How do you plan to finance the second PhD? – aparente001 Mar 01 '18 at 05:14
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    @aeismil It's not about performance here. This is saying "whether you have good academic record or not, we won't consider you if you already have a PhD". Had this conversation with a professor who said a person who already holds a PhD is likely to quit when the going gets tough. Hence money spent to produce a PhD would have been wasted. Frankly, I understand this point of view as I know many that quit their program at different stages -they don't hold PhD yet were able to make the decision. – BoltzBooz Mar 01 '18 at 05:27
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    But that’s a fundamentally different question than your original one. “Won’t consider PhD holders” is an informal “rule.” Hiding the previous degree is against admission policies because you’re misrepresenting yourself. It’s also a bad idea because you’re going to have a very puzzling application—schools will be curious why none of your references are recent, since you won’t be able to ask anybody from your first PhD program to offer a letter. – aeismail Mar 01 '18 at 05:56
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You got a bunch of bad ideas there, it seems. I was going to write a comment, but it doesn't have enough space.

First, you can't lie on any official document, especially if you are dealing with a government organizations. You may be breaking a law on top of some internal university rules. If you need a visa, you will have to fill out very thorough forms where you cannot have any lies or you risk deportation and being banned from entering the country in the future. In fact, if there is something ambiguous, many people prefer to hire a lawyer to double check the application.

Second, really consider options other than the second PhD. To me it seems you still have that PhD student's tunnel vision. Send your resumes around to various places, not just post-docs. See whats out there. Chances are you are missing some really really nice opportunities.

Arthur Tarasov
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    Check out https://versatilephd.com/ for options other than working in academia. – WBT Feb 28 '18 at 16:40
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    I wanted to second the recommendation here; it is often possible to retrain for a different subfield without having to do an entire new Ph.D. Maybe you should go to some conferences, review for some journals, etc, and build up some experience in the new subfield and then see if that opens some new doors. – James S. Apr 04 '18 at 18:49
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There is the added problem of obtaining a visa based on a lie in the application to the university.

That may void the visa when it is discovered.

There are cases where a lie on a cv for a job application has been used to void visas.

A visa obtained on false premises that are discovered will lead to great problems in obtaining visas for other countries as well.

Bent
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For the sake of completeness...

At least in Germany it is legally impossible to obtain a PhD in the same field (like, mathematics) where you already have a PhD. You can obtain a PhD in another field, and some do.

Another issue is if your foreign PhD is recognised in your destination country. I've heard some stories of people who did not get their foreign PhD recognised and basically did another thesis, but my knowledge of it is folklore.

Oleg Lobachev
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  • Also, in Germany I believe you get one "Dr." added to your title per PhD. – Flounderer Mar 01 '18 at 15:27
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    The same for Austria, there lives Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. Norbert Heinel. All are valid (not honoris causa) PhD of philosophy, psychology, theology and PhDs in musics, education and art. – Thorsten S. Mar 01 '18 at 16:29
  • Not contradictory to what you say, but I know of at least one German mathematician who left Germany for the UK during WW II and obtained a second PhD in maths. He had just completed his PhD, and he was unemployable in the UK... so he did another mathematics PhD. :-) – Peter K. Mar 02 '18 at 13:32
  • There are always habilitation and higher doctorates to pursue though – A T Mar 04 '18 at 04:41
  • @A T: I know. But a habilitation is formally not a PhD. – Oleg Lobachev Mar 06 '18 at 00:31
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As mentioned earlier, your Application to a University, esp from a foreign country is considered a legal document as it is the very reason you get into the country in the first place. Whether you have to share this info directly with the state or country is of little relevance as your University will have to share it as a matter of obligation to obtain your VISA and/or prove your right to one.

It would certainly be illegal, because by omitting your highest qualification you stand on very thin ground with regard to explaining to any judge why, other than to subvert the system.

If you omitted your B.Eng then you may be able to argue it's relevance in the face of your PhD, but by omitting your Phd you are effectively also omitting your Degree and Masters in the subject too and at a very min. $50k of education. That's a gross misrepresentation to a judge, and when that application must be submitted to government officials, (whether through you or the University passing your data for nat. security reasons) you will have committed a crime as the provider of this data. It will certainly get your VISA revoked even if the US would have wanted you more with a PhD than not simply because it opens them to the idea that you may have a more sinister reason to hide your qualifications, not to mention you have shown dishonest character and could be hiding much more. (You could be a spy for all they know, it's a PhD! What other 5 figure secrets could you have?)

As you already stated, you believe that your Phd may be a hindrance to your application. Anyone that doesn't have a program for 'career students' may give you reasons but you should'nt care. As a Phd holder, you are far far more valuable to the right schools with proper postdoc work available. MIT for example loves it's Phd students because they do lots of postdoc and many many businesses have collaborated (to MIT's profit) with it's students and cited their publications. Win-win.

user1901982
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