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I understand that if a father commands his child to go against the Torah, then there is no obligation to listen to him. But what if the father commands the child to do something that is against upholding a midas chasidus (pious trait).

For example, Choshen Mishpat 249.5 rules that it is a midas chasidus not to accept gifts. If a father commands his son to accept a gift (either from himself or another) but his son does not want to take it. What takes preference?

Deuteronomy
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hazoriz
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    Maybe it is modas chasidus to listen to your father in such a case – hazoriz Jan 17 '16 at 00:15
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    Related http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/65737/5120 – hazoriz Jan 17 '16 at 00:24
  • +1 You can ask this concerning hiddur mitzvah as well. The father tells him not to spend that extra shlish etc. – user6591 Jan 17 '16 at 18:59
  • @user6591 Thank you what is "extra shlish" refuring to – hazoriz Jan 17 '16 at 19:15
  • When we add up to a third of the value of a mitzvah in order to do it more beautifully. You want to spend nine hundred on a seffer Torah. Than you find a more beautiful one for $1199. That's within the third that you should add. Then pops finds out and demands you only buy the $900 one. – user6591 Jan 17 '16 at 19:19
  • @user6591 what is the source for this (I did not know about this) – hazoriz Jan 17 '16 at 19:21
  • See bava kama 9a-9b and shabbos 133b. And mishna berurah's introductory comments to siman 656. The case I presented to you is the second idea in the mechaber there. – user6591 Jan 17 '16 at 19:45
  • @user6591 Thank you very much for teaching me I b"n will – hazoriz Jan 17 '16 at 19:46
  • My pleasure:) Enjoy the sugya. The biur halachas there are very interesting. At the end you'll see why I phrased the case as the buyer made a 'decision' on a price. – user6591 Jan 17 '16 at 19:50
  • Are you talking about a case where the son had already accepted the stringency upon himself before the father demanded that the son accept the gift? If so, that might introduce another factor, namely the need for hataras n'darim before following his father's wishes. – Fred Jan 21 '16 at 20:47
  • @Fred Wow, if yes then with out a neder (if he did not accept upon himself yet, can he without his father's permission, (what if he knows his father will not like it) – hazoriz Jan 21 '16 at 20:50
  • @Fred But these questions have more to do with http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/67410/5120 – hazoriz Jan 21 '16 at 21:16
  • I think Trumas hadesh 40 is intersting – Dr. Shmuel May 19 '22 at 16:32

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As discussed previously:

Yoreh Deah 240 siman 8 says that kibud av v'em does not override "any torah or rabinic commandment."

Beis Lechem Yehuda there comments:

If a son knows that his parents fret when he fasts, he should not fast any days that are not obligatory.

The Pischei Teshuva talks about wearing black as a sign of mourning, or saying kaddish; broadly speaking, kibud av v'em should come before a midas chasidus.

(There are shades of gray that depend on how much my behavior is affecting my parents; there could be things that are truly none of their business. See the linked answer for more on that; but in the example here, if my parents are worried for my health, that is their business!)

Siman 240 does end with the note that attending a yeshiva where you think you'll best learn Torah is more important than honoring your parents. But choosing a place where you think you'll have success is not a midas chasidus, it's part of the mitzva of Talmud Torah!

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Shalom
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  • +1 How do you know that "my parents are worried for my health, that IS their business" then everything is their business? How to tell what is and what is not? – hazoriz Jan 21 '16 at 20:41
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Yeshivat Hesder Yerucham has a long discussion on Kibud Av V'Aim. It mentions in the name of Harav Yaakov Ariel that Midas Chasidus is not Doche Kibud Av V'Aim.

הוא מסביר שזה תלוי בשאלה האם הידור מצווה דוחה כיבוד אב ואם, שכן במצוות מלחמת מצווה יוצאים ידי חובה גם כטוראי פשוט. הרי"א מוכיח שמידת חסידות לא דוחה כבוד אב ואם, וכן מנהג.

Gershon Gold
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When the Chasam Sofer was about 13 he gave a shiur in which he argued with his grandfather. His father slapped him for his chutzpah.

Reb Nosson Adler consequently forbade the Chasam Sofer to speak to his father for the rest of his life.

So you see extra steiging trumps kibbud av.

pcoz
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  • Are you saying that continuing to give a shi'ur in the manner that you want takes precedence over your father's wishes? I'm not sure how clearly this supports your conclusion that "extra steiging trumps kibbud av" or even answers the OP's question about weighing stringencies against kibbud av. Also, where did you see or hear this story that you summarized in your answer? If you help other readers find your source, they can check the details of this story to see if it seems to support your conclusion or answer the OP's question. – Fred Jan 21 '16 at 22:46
  • Extra learning Torah trumps kibbud av vem - thats already in the shulchan aruch. Thats no proof for another middas chassidus. – LN6595 Jan 28 '16 at 09:09
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I saw in a Sefer on Kibbud Av V'Em that Kibbud Av V'em trumps middas chasidus. It does not trump an explicit issur, but will override chumros a person typically keeps.

LN6595
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