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Kayin and Hevel were born before Adam and Chava sinned and ate from the Tree of Knowledge. (See Rashi to 4:1.)

Did Kayin and Hevel ever receive the understanding that their parents got from the fruit?

If not, how did they know to being sacrifices? And what about when Kayin admits that he sinned killing Hevel?

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  • While it doesn't directly address your question, this hebrew article tries to explain whether they would have lived forever or not (due to Adams punishment). http://olamot.net/bama/%D7%94%D7%90%D7%9D-%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9F-%D7%95%D7%94%D7%91%D7%9C-%D7%94%D7%99%D7%95-%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%99-%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%95%D7%AA – andrewmh20 Oct 21 '14 at 14:16

2 Answers2

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Derech Hashem 1:3:8 writes

אמנם על ידי חטאו – נוספו ונתרבו חסרונות בעצמו של אדם ובבריאה כלה

Through [Adam's] sin, he added and increased deficiency in himself and in the entirety of creation

Adam's sin did not just affect himself - it had cosmic impact on the entire nature of creation. If his action impacted the entire creation, it seems it was not necessary to be the one who did the "eating" in order to be subject to the effects.

On a separate note, you are assuming that the דעת that came from eating from the Tree of Knowledge was general דעת, without which they could never have figured out to bring a sacrifice. However, it wasn't the Tree of Knowledge - it was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. I discussed here what the Rambam understands that to mean, but briefly it had to do with the blurring of moral awareness. Nefesh HaChaim (1:6) understands דעת to mean "connection," and eating from the Tree caused them to internalize their struggle with Evil. Either way, their ability to bring Korbanos, or to choose to serve Hashem, were not the results of this event.

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Y     e     z
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  • So the first Chava also got a death sentence? – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 00:40
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    @user6591 I don't know what you are asking. Who is the "first" Chava? – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 00:42
  • The medrash Rabba mentions a first Chava a couple of times. Rokeach al hatorah too. Ill get the maareh mikomos soon if you like. But it never mentions what happened her. Acc to your theory she would have died as well. – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 01:04
  • @user6591 If she was a normal creation, then I assume so. If she was some kind of angel, then not necessarily. I'm not too bothered either way. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 01:08
  • See Rabba 17 7,18 4, & 22 7. – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 01:09
  • Not an angel, she was supposed be the 'mother of all life'. Just didn't work out. – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 01:10
  • @user6591 I would assume she doesn't exist anymore. I haven't heard much about her in the news. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 01:11
  • That was what i based my assumptions on as well. – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 01:15
  • @user6591 so you're pointing out a מעלה of this explanation? – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 01:38
  • If I would agree with your reading into of the derech Hashem I would call this a maaleh, but as it is I don't really see what you are trying to bring out. – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 01:44
  • @user6591 please let me know which part is unclear. I was pointing out that the effects of the sin were not limited to the people who participated. Adam qualitatively changed the world with his actions - it wasn't like the fruit was some poison or potion that only affected the one who ate it - the sin of eating it caused a shift in the nature of creation. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 01:47
  • I looked it up because the language You quoted didn't really seem to me imply an effect on all other humans that happened to be standing next to him. Its possible that it's only future children of Adam that are subject to the new world order of life death and afterlife cycle. I think we all agree Kayin and Hevel were included in the thistle and thorn curse. I just don't see from his words they they automatically got Daas. I think the ribuy of gam that someone else mentioned would actually imply that they were not included. But my heart tells me they were. – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 01:57
  • @user6591 I wasn't directly proving that they got Da'as from that. I was proving that Adam's sin affected more than just those involved in the sin. I don't know where in the cited passage you see anything about other humans or not - it says the whole creation. Were Kayin and Hevel not included in בריאה כולה? Ramchal writes that they brought חסרון and destroyed the שלמות of creation - I don't think there was any hereditary aspects of it - it directly affected all creation. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 02:02
  • If the entire creation was affected to the extent of having personally eaten from the eitz hadaas, what was gained by giving some to the animals? – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 02:12
  • @user6591 I think that is a separate question. No matter how you explain it, what did they want to gain by feeding it to the animals? But your question doesn't change what the Ramchal says. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 02:29
  • I think that question opens the possibility that the Ramchal's statement 'once Adam sinned' was not an instantaneous explosion of change. – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 02:43
  • @user6591 not really. How did the trees and the rocks get affected? He didn't feed them. He didn't feed כל הבריאה. That medrash won't get you very far for what the Ramchal is discussing. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 02:46
  • The rocks got cursed a little while later by Hashem, as written in the Torah. What medrash? – user6591 Oct 24 '14 at 03:08
  • But the Ramchal is saying the entire creation got cursed through Adam. What you are referring to is something else. Again, how will you explain the words of the Ramchal that everything was affected by Adam's sin? Even the things that he didn't feed. The medrash about feeding the animals will not help you to explain that Ramchal. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 03:40
  • @user6591 forgot to ping you. – Y     e     z Oct 24 '14 at 03:45
  • But perhaps everyone felt the effects, but only Adam, Chavah, and their later children received the "benefits"? – Scimonster Oct 28 '14 at 12:16
  • Also, regarding what you pointed out about bringing sacrifices, i mentioned in the question Kayin's feelings after-the-fact about killing Hevel. – Scimonster Oct 28 '14 at 12:17
  • @Scimonster I don't understand what you mean in your second comment. I was pointing out that the "da'as" in question had no connection to a heightened awareness. "Da'as" like what differentiates a minor from an adult was not the result of this act - that existed before. Adam had "normal" "da'as" before eating from the Tree. Did I misunderstand you? – Y     e     z Oct 28 '14 at 17:28
  • Well, before eating from the tree, would they have known that killing was bad? – Scimonster Oct 28 '14 at 17:34
  • @Scimonster Yes. They would have known it more clearly than after. See the answer I linked to in my post. – Y     e     z Oct 28 '14 at 17:34
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Rash"i that you cited talks only about Cain. Hevel was born another time, that possibly was after the sin (see Tosafot Sanhedrin 38:2)

When Chava gave the fruit to Adam she also gave it to the animals.

Bereshit 3:6.

ותיתן גם לאישה

רש"י: גם - לרבות בהמה וחיה

Translation: and gave also to her husband

Rash"i: "also" - to include animals

I'd suppose that Cain was not worse then animals, so he also eat from the fruit.

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