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According to the Shaatnez testers of America

Suits and Sport jackets, (Men's/Boy's): Require testing even 100% polyester and 100% silk suits.

Why so? Isn't there a simple Sefek Sefeka? Safek if there is wool, and if there is wool Safek if there is Linen! This is even a Safek Sefeka HaMithapech. Why would they require testing?

(I'm not looking for an answer arguing against the entire practice of checking for Shaatnez)

msh210
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Hacham Gabriel
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  • Maybe it's considered "efshar levarer"? – ertert3terte Apr 12 '13 at 01:17
  • @ShmuelBrin even according to most the Poskim that hold you still need to check Be'efshar Levarer one doesn't need to check when it's not "Efshar Levarer BeKalut" and I don't think anything that takes a professional to check for would count as BeKalut. – Hacham Gabriel Apr 12 '13 at 01:30
  • And if you'd like I can bring an exhaustive list of Rishonim and Aharonim that don't hold one must check BeEfsharim Levarer. – Hacham Gabriel Apr 12 '13 at 01:33
  • Related: http://judaism.stackexchange.com/q/2597 – msh210 Apr 12 '13 at 06:22
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    I doubt any polyester suit one could buy at a store has shatnez, but it could be away to support someone financially. – Ariel K Apr 12 '13 at 13:49
  • @ArielK let's be Dan Lechaf Zechut and say that they actually believe that it's required. – Hacham Gabriel Apr 12 '13 at 14:26
  • You could also ask, as a precursor to this question, whether you can establish a safeik of shaatnez to begin with (i.e. if you can establish that there is sometimes wool and linen in those kinds of suits). If not, there's no need for a ספק ספיקא. At the other extreme (for example), if there generally is linen in the lining, and wool is sometimes mixed in, that might be considered a single safeik (just from the wool) if you can establish a chazaka that linen is in those suits. – Fred Apr 12 '13 at 17:24
  • @ArielK, some folks over at http://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/2597 seem to have experiences to the contrary. – Danny Schoemann Apr 18 '13 at 12:36

1 Answers1

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The 100% in 100% polyester and 100% silk suits refers to the visible part of the suit.

Underneath that is an entire world of stuffing, reinforcement and other junk. The easiest place to see some of these is under the lapel; under the felt is something stiff, and it's not silk/polyester.

These hidden parts are made from whatever material the factory can buy at the cheapest price. It usually differs even from one identical suit to the next; depending on what came out of the sack next.

Shaatnez checkers will tell you that it's not at all unusual to find both wool and linen in these pieces, maybe even material made from both.

There's also the issue of the thread used for sewing on the buttons. Linen thread is still one of the strongest threads available.

BTW: Have you ever seen a zipper of 100% polyester or 100% silk?

To answer your question: There is only one Safek: Do the non-silk/polyester sections contain wool and linen?

Disclosure: My father was a Shaatnez checker for over 30 years.

Danny Schoemann
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  • why is the thread for sewing the button considered under the issur, I would think that maybe since it does not cloth you and therefor does not count. – Yaakov Pinsky Apr 17 '13 at 10:06
  • @YaakovPinsky - the Halacha is that a large piece of cloth that has a wool thread on one side and a linen thread on the other side is still Shaatnez, even if one wants to use the middle "clean" piece. – Danny Schoemann Apr 17 '13 at 10:16
  • How is that only one safek? – Double AA Apr 17 '13 at 13:38
  • @Danny Schoemann - is that derabanan or deorita? – Yaakov Pinsky Apr 17 '13 at 14:58
  • @DannySchoemann That's what the Mechaber rules, but the rama seems to argue. See YD 299:2 – Double AA Apr 17 '13 at 19:24
  • @YaakovPinsky, the Kitzur (176:3) says "according to Rambam it's d'Oraitha, and some are lenient". – Danny Schoemann Apr 18 '13 at 06:03
  • @DoubleAA: it's a single Safek: Did the manufacturer hide Shaatnez in your suit, or not. – Danny Schoemann Apr 18 '13 at 06:05
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    @DannySchoemann No it's two safeiks: Did he hide linen? Did he hide wool? (We can go back and forth, but you're the one who thinks he has the right understanding. So why is it one safek not two?) – Double AA Apr 18 '13 at 06:23
  • @DannySchoemann That "some [who] are lenient" is the Ramban, Rashba, Terumat haDeshen, Tur, and most importantly the Rama who says the minhag in Ashkenaz is to be meikil. Why is this case of the Rama paskining not acceptable to you? – Double AA Apr 18 '13 at 06:26
  • @Danny Schoemann, I will go and pick up a book myself, but I think it wise that you inform, when answering a question, if you are giving your opinion or the Halacha, especially when you depict yourself as an authority on the matter. – Yaakov Pinsky Apr 18 '13 at 06:48
  • @DoubleAA: If the Kitzur bothered mentioning the Rambam, then it's obviously an opinion we need take into account. The Kitzur almost NEVER brings 2 opinions; he wrote the Sefer for the layman who needs a Psak. – Danny Schoemann Apr 18 '13 at 12:26
  • @YaakovPinsky, I don't recall ever "depicting myself as an authority on any matter"; in this case I clearly mention my "credentials": "My father was a Shaatnez checker for over 30 years". So I'm talking as the "tailor" not the "Rabbi". (I could answer many questions here based on my memory, but refrain from doing so unless my "anecdotes" provide IMO a useful answer. Else I wait until I can open the relevant sources and quote them.) – Danny Schoemann Apr 18 '13 at 12:31