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Is it considered a meritorious practice to have a fancy/expensive/large menorah? Normally the imperative to beautify mitzvos is related to the mitzvah item itself (e.g. talis, tefillin, esrog), so here I would assume it would mean to have beautiful candles.

WAF
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not-allowed to change my name
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2 Answers2

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First of all, note that opinions brought in Avnei Nezer 2:500 that you need to have the candles lit in some sort of kli (vessel) and not just loose. According to these opinions, the menora itself is a mitzva object.

That said, even if you don't rule that way we have a notion of hiddur mitzva even for things that aren't direct mitzva objects such as the quill used to write Sta"m (Shabbat 133b).

The Mishna Berura (673 sk 28) does note that one should expend effort to have as nice a menorah as one can.

Double AA
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  • The one page that's missing on Hebrewbooks: http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1344&st=&pgnum=572 – b a Dec 05 '12 at 05:20
  • @ba I know :( I tried earlier. Isn't there a way to report that to them or something? – Double AA Dec 05 '12 at 05:22
  • If you have the teshuva in front of you could you write down what his reasoning is for this? I wrote down this teshuva by me last year in regards to a different shailo that I had (maybe I'll post it here.) – Yehoshua Dec 05 '12 at 12:19
  • It might be worth mentioning that we likely do not pasken like this Avnei Nezer -- see for instance the Mishneh Berurah 671:18 and the Aruch HaShulchan 673:6 – Curiouser Dec 05 '12 at 16:57
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    @Curiouser Avnei Nezer is essentially contemporary to those sources. See also Rivevot Efraim 1:434:2 who seems to treat not having a menorah as a bedieved. – Double AA Dec 06 '12 at 16:27
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    @Curiouser I saw in Nefesh HaRav over Shabbat that Rav Soloveitchik ruled strongly against the Avnei Nezer. – Double AA Dec 18 '12 at 18:23
  • @DoubleAA I didn't say they weren't contemporary; I said we likely do not pasken like him, since the main seforim from which we do typically pasken rule against him. I don't really understand how citing a tshuva or two is supposed to be meaningful against both the MB and AhS. Do you have some reason to believe that psak follows the Avnei Nezer on this? – Curiouser Dec 18 '12 at 19:09
  • @Curiouser Well I cited the Rivevot Ephraim. Also we typically rule like the MB and/or AhS when they rule regarding specific opinions. They never saw this Teshuva of the Avnei Nezer so we don't really know what they would have said (particularly the MB who I guess would have said טוב להחמיר whereas the AhS probably would have said לא שמענו מזה). – Double AA Dec 18 '12 at 19:24
  • @DoubleAA It wasn't the Avnei Nezer's chiddush. The Avnei Nezer himself was only citing the Chesed l'Avraham. And it is based on diyukim in Rishonim. So the fact that the MB and AhS didn't see the Avnei Nezer is meaningless. And the Rivevos Efraim does not seem to me to treat it as b'dieved; just the opposite based on his concluding sentence. So I would say you have no evidence that we pasken against the MB and AhS. And it's not like they were silent on the matter. They ruled explicitly. – Curiouser Dec 18 '12 at 22:16
  • @DoubleAA, As I am not able to look it up myself right now, can you tell me if it's patently clear that the Avnei Nezer means that all the candles need to share a utensil (like a Menorah), and not that each candle ought to be supported and stabilized with some sort of utensil, as opposed to, say, melting the wax base and securing it to some surface? (Obviously this would only work for a solid-state candle like wax.) – Seth J Dec 19 '12 at 20:28
  • @SethJ His proof has to do with the avoda of hatavat haneirot in the mikdash whereby he proves that "הכלי בכלל הנר". So I don't know that they have to share the same utensil, but that each must be contained within a utensil. He even starts discussing what counts as a Keli based on Rambam Hilchot Keilim. – Double AA Dec 19 '12 at 20:36
  • @DoubleAA, so a beer-bottle Menorah works according to him? – Seth J Dec 19 '12 at 20:37
  • @SethJ כנלע"ד . – Double AA Dec 19 '12 at 20:40
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    @Curiouser I guess my main point is that we are not bound to paskin against him, and any posek worth his salt could still choose to paskin that way if he wanted to. – Double AA Dec 03 '13 at 17:09
  • A single kli, as opposed to, say, 8 candlesticks lined up on your windowsill? – Monica Cellio Sep 03 '14 at 21:12
  • @MonicaCellio I do not think that was his implication, but I haven't looked at it in a while. I think he was opposing 8 candles lined up on your windowsill – Double AA Sep 03 '14 at 21:53
  • I think you may be able to provide a better answer to this question :) – MTL Dec 21 '14 at 04:40
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Meseches Sofrim 20 seems to imply as much.

One may not light an old lamp; one who only has an old lamp may whiten it well in fire, and that is permitted.

cf this lecture (around the 22 min mark)

rikitikitembo
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