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Question: If we believe that Sunday is Yom Rishon of Creation, then what do we do with the given date of Creation being Monday, October 7, 3761 B.C.E. according to our current calendar? Are there other counts besides Seder Olam who calculated years from Creation?

EDIT: By "current calendar" I mean that the Oct 7 date is equivalent to 25 Elul [or 1 Tishrei] AM 1 [or 2]. Either way, the BeHaRD system our current Hebrew calendar operates from inherently begins from a Monday [Yom Sheni, Hence the Bet in "BeHaRD"], and neither the first day of creation nor the creation of Adam happened on a Monday. So how do we reconcile this?

kosherpork
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    Monday, October 7, 3761 B.C.E. is not a thing in our current Jewish calendar. Where did you get it from and what does it mean? – Double AA Jan 21 '21 at 22:08
  • To add to the puzzle, the Jewish calendar is actually beginning years-wise from Adam HaRishon's birthday, 5781 years ago last Rosh Hashanna, so Friday, not Monday, and not the date you gave at all. – Ploni Almoni Jan 22 '21 at 09:49
  • @PloniAlmoni Actually, that "addition to the puzzle" solves it. Our present-day year count actually begins from one year before Adam's creation (so that, if Adam were still alive, we'd have celebrated his 5779th birthday last Rosh Hashanah). The epoch for that is indeed on Monday, 5 hours and 204 chalakim (Rambam, Hil. Kiddush Hachodesh 6:8). Molad Tishrei of the following year would have then been on Friday at 14 hours. – Meir Jan 22 '21 at 15:52
  • @DoubleAA Me'am Lo'ez, for one. And it is the equivalent date of 25 Elul [or 1 Tishrei] AM 1 [or 2] on the proleptic Julian calendar.Just like how Saturday, January 23rd 2021 CE is 10 Shevat 5781. – kosherpork Jan 24 '21 at 04:31
  • @PloniAlmoni That date is quoted not only in Me'am Loez, but in almost every article discussing the Jewish calendar and its corresponding secular date. Also, it being a Monday is inherent to the BeHaRD system our current calendar goes by:

    Bet: the second day of the week, Monday Hei: the fifth hour Reish-Daled: 204 halakim

     – kosherpork Jan 24 '21 at 04:32
  • Could you explain what BeHaRD is for the uninitiated. – robev Jan 24 '21 at 05:13

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The epoch of the current calendar is, as you point out, BaHaRaD - Monday, 5 hours and 204 chalakim.

However, it’s crucial to realise that this is an artificial date, arrived at by winding the calendar backwards, and corresponds to the molad of Tishrei of Year 1. It is referred to as molad tohu.

This is almost an entire year before the world was created on Sunday, Elul 25th, Year 1.

(See for example the Wikipedia article here, with all appropriate caveats regarding using Wikipedia as a source.)

The point of this artificial molad is that if you run time forward from there, adding 12 times the average lunar month length of 29 days, 12 hours and 793 chalakim, you get to the first actual molad of Tishrei, on the Friday morning of Creation at 8am.

Joel K
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  • I understand it's an artificial date. My question is why are none of the days a Sunday? – kosherpork Jan 24 '21 at 09:12
  • I'm not sure I'm following you. Where and why would you expect to see a Sunday? – Joel K Jan 24 '21 at 09:15
  • Because the first day of creation is yom rishon, which is sunday. where does a monday or a friday fit into the equation? as in, where does yom rishon fall chronologically here? btw the monday and the friday? after the friday? before the monday? – kosherpork Jan 24 '21 at 09:16
  • The molad is the time when the earth, sun and moon are aligned, such that the moon is invisible and subsequently begins to wax. (Of course this whole discussion is about the average moment of the molad, not the actual time which can vary between months). What does that have to do with the first day of creation, especially considering that the sun and moon were not created until Wednesday? – Joel K Jan 24 '21 at 09:19
  • The Sunday of Creation is almost a year after the molad tohu on Monday, and six days before the molad of adam on the Friday of Creation – Joel K Jan 24 '21 at 09:20
  • ah. so molad tohu [mon oct 7], yom rishon of creation a year later [tishrei 1], molad of adam on friday six days later? [altho that seems to be just 5 days later] – kosherpork Jan 24 '21 at 09:28
  • more or less. although yom rishon of creation is assumed to be Elul 25. And you're right that the friday is then five days later – Joel K Jan 24 '21 at 09:30
  • Why is it 8 am? – Double AA Mar 04 '21 at 15:58
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    @DoubleAA https://www.sefaria.org/Tosafot_on_Rosh_Hashanah.8a.15?lang=he – Joel K Mar 04 '21 at 17:04
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    @DoubleAA See also the mefaresh to Hilchot kiddush hachodesh 6:8 – Joel K Mar 04 '21 at 17:07