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I was recently accepted into an applied math Ph.D. here in the U.S., and being the 1st in my family to graduate from university, I had a hard time explaining to them why my university will be spending close to 50k on me per year (stipend, tuition, health insurance, fees).

I know that I will be working for the university as a TA, and that perhaps that will go towards covering some of the costs outlined previously, however, it hardly seems to justify the full expenditure.

Patrick Sanan
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Walter U.
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    What makes you think you won't be earning your keep as a TA? – Brian Borchers May 18 '16 at 13:59
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    @BrianBorchers because I was previously employed at my undergrad institution as a tutor, doing similar work to that which I will be performing at my current university (grading, recitations, etc.) and the numbers of hours + pay does not come close to the amount cited in my question. – Walter U. May 18 '16 at 14:03
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    It is not that you will be overpaid as a grad student. It is that you were extremely underpaid as an undergrad tutor. Actually, you will probably still be underpaid. If they hired Ph.D. holders to do your TA work, it would cost them a lot more. – GEdgar May 18 '16 at 14:47
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    The tuition part of the story is basically irrelevant. To my understanding, the university does their accounting in the particular way that they do it because it helps them with their taxes, but to a student, PhD student tuition in STEM simply doesn't exist. – Ian May 18 '16 at 15:42
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    There are three kinds of useful activities: 1) those that keep us alive and healthy; 2) those that we find inherently interesting; and 3) those that help us do 1 or 2. The university invests in you, because it expects that you will eventually do 2 or 3. – Jouni Sirén May 18 '16 at 15:54
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    I am not an expert on this, so please correct me if I am wrong. But to my understanding, the university is probably not funding OP. The federal government is funding OP. The university is just where the paperwork originates and the money gets spent. – emory May 18 '16 at 16:37
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    Why is the federal government funding OP? I would rather live in a society with a surplus rather than a deficit of smart people. University is a warehouse for the smart people that we don't currently have a use for. – emory May 18 '16 at 16:39
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    Note that Universities also "fund" Ph.D. students in the liberal arts and humanities - for mostly the same reasons. – Todd Wilcox May 18 '16 at 18:28
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    @ToddWilcox I understand that Ph.D. students in the humanities/liberal arts don't get nearly enough support as candidates in STEM disciplines. It seems to me that if the whole "TA-ing pays your way" rationale is to hold water, then support ought to be equal across all disciplines. There are articles citing Ph.D. students in non STEM fields graduating with substantial debt vs. no debt from their science counterparts. – Walter U. May 18 '16 at 19:44
  • @JohnWayne360 I agree that non-STEM Ph.D. students are getting less and/or not enough support, and being hooded with debt (along with a hood). But they are getting support. – Todd Wilcox May 18 '16 at 19:47
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    In some countries PhD candidates are simply employees. You will not be a "student" in the same way than undergrad students are, you will be doing real work (not only teaching, but also research). – Relaxed May 19 '16 at 06:32
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    For reference, you can see the percent of U.S. PhDs funded primarily by various sources (TA, RA, fellowship, self funded), divided by broad field in this PDF. Note that TA as primary source of support is actually more common in humanities than STEM fields. RA funding is much less common in humanities, which makes sense given the limited grant funding in those fields. – ff524 May 19 '16 at 09:07
  • I would probably consider doing a PhD an "apprenticeship in research", for which you of course need to get paid. And you get paid a bit more (although still far too little IMO) than other apprentices, because you already have a relevant degree, i.e. education/experience. – Gerhard May 19 '16 at 14:29
  • @BrianBorchers: There are quite a few universities which have more PhD candidates than are needed for teaching duties, or alternatively, they all teach but very little. – einpoklum May 19 '16 at 21:17
  • Note that it's perfectly possible for a PhD student to NOT be funded by the university. So think of it as you (and every other student) paying the same tuition & fees. Then some students, because they have useful skills, may get jobs at the university - TA, RA, &c - that include some of those costs as part of the pay. Others may get jobs elsewhere that let them pay the costs, or have rich parents, trust funds, or (in a couple of cases I know of) have made a few million in startups. – jamesqf May 20 '16 at 06:43
  • @Ian The tuition part is very much relevant for the professor's side of the equation. It may well make the PhD student nearly as expensive as a post-doc (I pay only about 50% more direct/indirect costs for a 55k/yr post-doc.) Tuition is charged because students take classes which have to be paid for, and for RA's that can come from grant money. For the TA case, of course the university pays itself, but even there you're charging undergraduate programs (maybe state-subsidized) and paying for graduate teaching. Large organizations are complex beasts. – davidswelt May 23 '16 at 15:54
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    @JohnWayne360: When I had similar conversations with some relatives, I found it simpler just to say I had a full scholarship to cover tuition and living expenses, rather than trying to explain the principles behind who gets funded and how/why. That's not the word that's usually used, but "scholarship" is not so different from "fellowship", and it gives the right idea (namely, that through a competitive process you were selected to have your education paid for; this is true even if that process was part of graduate admission). Then it's a familiar concept, rather than strange and different. – Anonymous Mathematician Feb 05 '17 at 06:30

10 Answers10

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A good question. Why would the school make this investment (which could be closer to $100K/year)?

  1. As pointed out, if you are TAing/grading/teaching, you are providing services that the school charges undergraduates for.
  2. The funding of a university is not entirely like that of a business. Some of the money is a direct investment in purely academic pursuits, especially that from grants. Educating people and doing basic research is part of what that money is allocated for.
  3. Averaged over all the graduate students, the direct value that they provide to the university in terms of research which goes on to get grants/prestige/donations/patents is substantial.
  4. There is a non-trivial chance that you will become a wealthy donor to the school.
Patrick Sanan
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    I think it also should be emphasized that most universities want you to have enough money to focus on your work for them. If they pay too little, you may be inclined, or even forced, to supplement their money with another job, which will distract you, tire you, and demand your time, none of which the university wants. Ultimately, PhD work tends to require a very substantial portion of one’s time and attention, which one cannot offer if one also has to worry about food and shelter. So if they want the work done, they need to pay enough to the people doing it that they can focus. – KRyan May 18 '16 at 15:47
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    @KRyan GF is in the situation above, funding ran out, needing to work odd jobs while finishing up her thesis. All I can say about that is it seems borderline impossible to me, and she's really struggling with it. – Andrew Whatever May 18 '16 at 16:08
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    For most US PhD programs in math, I think 3 (excepting perhaps "prestige") and 4 are nearly inconsequential. Most math departments bring in relatively little money from grants. It is nearly impossible to get an RA position in math unlike in science or engineering. Grad students are paid solely for their teaching/grading duties, because this is a crucial service to the math dept. – Kimball May 18 '16 at 17:53
  • Also, many businesses support general research, like academia. – Kimball May 18 '16 at 17:54
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    I don't think this should be the answer. It misses a very important caveat: why don't these reasons apply to non-STEM PhD students, at least enough to have similar funding? – jds May 18 '16 at 20:03
  • @gwg I alluded to this in a comment for my question. Still, I think this is a good answer. – Walter U. May 18 '16 at 21:10
  • Rather than disagree here, I wrote the answer I wanted. :) – jds May 19 '16 at 00:02
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    @KRyan I even heard a professor stating that they pay just enough so you don't have to worry about food and shelter, but no more so you don't get distracted. – Davidmh May 19 '16 at 09:44
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    @gwg Competition. From industry. Treat a non-STEM PhD student like **** and they'll look around, see that real-world jobs would be nicer, but not so much nicer that it's worth jumping ship from the research they love. Industry treats STEM people much nicer, so the threshold needed to stop them from jumping is higher. – Joel May 19 '16 at 12:17
  • @Joel This exactly. Good professors doing good research need good PhD students. Good students cost money. Good research builds prestige. Prestige rakes in undergrads. Prestige wins funding grants. Prestige makes a university money. Gotta spend money to make money - this is a constant in the universe. – J... May 20 '16 at 13:30
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    @Joel: While there is industry competition, a candidate looking to make a decent living first and foremost will always end up with the industry job. PhD stipends are sufficient to pay rent and buy cheap food. That's it. – davidswelt May 23 '16 at 15:50
  • It probably costs them nothing. A grant is likely paying for you. (Other bullets allude to this, but I thought I'd state it explicitly)
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